Fill Flash Newbe ???

Guys just purchased a 430EX from a fellow member here. It arrived yesterday. Was reading the manual etc but have a question on using it for fill flash.

Basically what I have been doing playing with it indoors last night is just putting the flash in ETTL mode and letting it do its thing bouncing the light off my ceiling.

If using this outdoors to add some fill is there anything I need to do different other than point the flash directly at the subject? I assume the flash knows,
using it's exposure reading, how much flash to output?

Thanks
Greg

g-money wrote in post #2755436
Guys just purchased a 430EX from a fellow member here. It arrived yesterday. Was reading the manual etc but have a question on using it for fill flash.

Basically what I have been doing playing with it indoors last night is just putting the flash in ETTL mode and letting it do its thing bouncing the light off my ceiling.

If using this outdoors to add some fill is there anything I need to do different other than point the flash directly at the subject? I assume the flash knows,
using it's exposure reading, how much flash to output?

Thanks
Greg

Fill flash outdoors with Canon ETTL is easy...FEC = 0 or FEC = -1EV, aim and shoot.

Flash as main source indoors with Canon ETTL is absurdly complex...

...Use P and any available background light being recorded is at the mercy of 1/60 shutter speed and the aperture chosen on the lens; and if you want an image which is not underexposed you need to dial in FEC = +2/3EV. This results in PHD (push here, dummy) flash results.

...Use Av and any available background light being recorded is captured by the often absurdly slow shutter speed that is chosen by the camera for the aperture on the lens, to capture low ambient light in the background, which is using flash for the subject exposure; and if you want in image which is not underexposed you need to dial in FEC = +2/3EV. This can result in photos like the pros take, but they know when the camera is going to use slow shutter speeds and are prepared for that to happen! Moral of the story is to use a tripod when in this mode and the lights are low!

...Use M and any available background light being recorded is controlled by your selection of shutter speed and aperture on the lens; and if you want an image which is not underexposed you need to dial in FEC = +2/3EV. This can result in photos like the pros take (nice exposure of subject, nice amount of ambient light captured).

Wilt wrote in post #2755484
Fill flash outdoors with Canon ETTL is easy...FEC = 0 or FEC = -1EV, aim and shoot.

Flash as main source indoors with Canon ETTL is absurdly complex...

...Use P and any available background light being recorded is at the mercy of 1/60 shutter speed and the aperture chosen on the lens; and if you want an image which is not underexposed you need to dial in FEC = +2/3EV. This results in PHD (push here, dummy) flash results.

...Use Av and any available background light being recorded is captured by the often absurdly slow shutter speed that is chosen by the camera for the aperture on the lens, to capture low ambient light in the background, which is using flash for the subject exposure; and if you want in image which is not underexposed you need to dial in FEC = +2/3EV. This can result in photos like the pros take, but they know when the camera is going to use slow shutter speeds and are prepared for that to happen! Moral of the story is to use a tripod when in this mode and the lights are low!

...Use M and any available background light being recorded is controlled by your selection of shutter speed and aperture on the lens; and if you want an image which is not underexposed you need to dial in FEC = +2/3EV. This can result in photos like the pros take (nice exposure of subject, nice amount of ambient light captured).

Thanks Wilt, Let me see if I understand you completely. I normally shoot in M. So I should adjust the FEC to +2/3 in the flash itself correct. Not in the camera. I think I remember reading that the flash will override the camera on the FEC setting. Is this pretty much a rule of thumb for all indoor photography or something you have learned through trial and error? Also does it matter the distance from subject as to how much FEC you adjust.

Thanks
Greg

For outdoor fill, the biggest limitation is your camera's 1/200 shutter speed. You can use high speed sync if you like, but it will limit your effective range significantly. The best way to maximize the range outdoors is to use Tv mode at 1/200. Some tweaking of EC and FEC may be required, but it will get reasonably close leaving them both at 0.

You can adjust FEC on either the camera or the flash, whichever is easier for you.

If this is your first E-TTL flash unit, I recommend printing out The EOS Flash Bible (link in my signature). Read it and keep it for reference.

I , like g-money have this issue. Have the 430ex, using it though alway fiddling to get it right. Just upgraded from the 350d to the 5d , and the 430ex seem to expose much better in the auto mode on the flash unit with the 5d then the 350d, especially indoors , seem to always under expose. Thanks for the link on the eos flash bible, will be a great help. I am learning to get it right in the tv av and m settings. Regards Robert

Thanks Curtis. Yes this my first experience with any kind of flash. Have spent the past 7/8 months learning my camera.

Question on the flash Bible and FEC. In reading on fill flash I have gotten confused. The Bible reads

A ratio of 1:1 would mean that the flash unit is the sole source of light (0 ambient + 1 flash) and therefore you wouldn’t have a fill flash situation.

A 2:1 ratio would mean that the ambient light and flash are at the same level (1 ambient + 1 flash). That basically means 0 stops of compensation given a fairly flat-lit scene, and usually results in rather unnatural looking fill flash.

A ratio of 3:1 means that there is twice as much light from the ambient source as the flash (2x ambient plus 1 of flash). Such a ratio requires a -1 stop fill flash setting on the flash unit, since each stop means a doubling or halving of the amount of light.

A ratio of 5:1 means that there is four times as much light from the ambient source as the flash (4x ambient plus 1 of flash). This is a -2 stop difference. Typically photographers use between 1 and 2 stops of fill flash to lighten shadows without creating a phoney flash-illuminated look.
However, the term “ratio” is confusing and seems to mean different things to different people. Sometimes people talk about a 1:1 ratio when the ambient and fill lights are of equal intensity. So a 2:1 ratio might mean -1 stop fill flash and 4:1 would mean -2 stop fill flash. In this case they’re talking more about the light output than they are about the reflected light.

The top section of this speaks in what I think is referring to a +FEC where the bottom sec speaks of a -FEC to accomplish the same thing I think. Wilt speaks of adding a +FEC for indoor shooting..Ahhhhhhhhhhh​h

Clear this up please does adding a +FEC number when used in fill flash actually over power more of the shadows. Where a -FEC would be less output thus showing more of the natural shadows that our eyes actually see?

Sorry if this seems 1st grade to many of you. Seems the more I read the more confused I can get.

Greg

g-money wrote in post #2755835
Clear this up please does adding a +FEC number when used in fill flash actually over power more of the shadows. Where a -FEC would be less output thus showing more of the natural shadows that our eyes actually see?

If your goal is to reduce shadows in sunlight, then +FEC would have a greater effect in that category. But this increases the flash exposure without reducing the ambient exposure, so you run the risk of overexposing the sunlit areas. When you use +FEC outdoors, you'll generally want to combine that with some negative EC to avoid overexposing.

And to be honest, that ratio stuff as described in the Flash Bible is pretty Greek to me. Two years ago I had a 300D and a Promaster flash, and neither of these units had FEC. Outdoors, I just turned the flash on and took pictures (mindful of the 1/200 shutter limitation), and most of the time they turned out pretty good.

0 EC and 0 FEC on all these.

Thanks Curtis, Appreciate your time in helping get me pointed in the right direction.!

Greg

thanks Curtis... i don't know if i'll ever learn how to use this darn thing... .... i'm going to print out your post and work with it this weekend