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Thread started 25 Feb 2007 (Sunday) 08:56
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The Digital Trap (A Rant)

 
20droger
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Feb 25, 2007 08:56 |  #1

The manufacturers of digital camera tout very highly the fact that there is no film cost, hence digital is cheaper. Once the camera cost is compensated for, the images are free!

BUNK!!!!

A digital body costs well over $1000, where an equivalent film body only a few hundred dollars. But, as they say, the difference in body price is quickly offset by the cost of film and processing. I'll grant that this is true. But only in theory!

Digital is much easier than film, so other factors apply.

When on a casual outing, such as last weekend's trip to Bosque del Apache in New Mexico, we took well over twelve-hundred pictures. If we had been using film, we would have taken a dozen rolls or so at best. That's approximately a 3:1 difference.

Assume that in a given shoot about 20% of the shots are worth printing. With digital, we would be (and are) printing about 220-250 pictures. If we had used film (Ektachrome), I would be exposing and developing about 80-90 Cibachrome prints.

The cost of developing the Ektachrome slides and producing the Cibachrome prints in-house would be less (considerably less) than the ink and paper to make the digital prints.

These "free" electronic images are bankrupting me!




  
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Tony-S
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Feb 25, 2007 09:19 |  #2

I'm certain that, accounting for inflation, the cost of my Canon A-1 was substantially higher than the cost of my 30D, and the 30D has many more features. The principal expense for digital seems to be ink, computer, and additional hard drive space.

Whether the costs are less using digital, I cannot say, but value-wise it seems that you get more for your money, particularly when you consider how much easier "dodging and burning" are wiith post processing. Pluse, once you have the image as you want, you can reproduce it exactly on the printer as many times as you like. Time is money.


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scrane
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Feb 25, 2007 09:21 |  #3

Wow!
What do you do with 250 prints?




  
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René ­ Damkot
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Feb 25, 2007 09:25 |  #4

I had my 10D 'payed back' in 1 year, solely based on the savings in film and processing...
I don't print more images nowadays, but the ones I print are better.


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Feb 25, 2007 09:27 |  #5

I print out very very few of the images I shoot. I no longer print out 4x6s to put in photo albums---my photo album is my computer. If I want to share shots with friends or relatives I put them online or on a CD or DVD. So digital saves me a buttload of money in that way, although since I have gotten into photography as a serious hobby, I have spent much more on a 5D than I would have for a serious film camera.


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gryphonslair99
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Feb 25, 2007 11:31 |  #6

The manufacturers of digital camera tout very highly the fact that there is no film cost, hence digital is cheaper. Once the camera cost is compensated for, the images are free!

BUNK!!!!

Since you went ditigal what film costs have you incured? They are right about this one. I have yet to see an ad from any major camera manufacture that states that the images are free. That is a preception we develop and has been passed on by sales people for businesses.

A digital body costs well over $1000, where an equivalent film body only a few hundred dollars. But, as they say, the difference in body price is quickly offset by the cost of film and processing. I'll grant that this is true. But only in theory!

In 1970 the cost of a Nikon F2 body was easily the equivelent of a $1000. The cost of that body was almost three times the monthly payment for my parents 1500 square foot ranch house. It cost $19,500 and they bought it three years after it was built from a Doctors family. That same house would now sell for a minimum of $210,000. My father was a CPA making $14,000 a year. A good salery back then. They now take as much out of my check for taxes each month as his gross monthly paycheck was back then.

Digital is much easier than film, so other factors apply.

The same fundimentals apply to digital as to film when taking a photograph. If you are well grounded in the basics and have good techniqure film is no tougher than digital. The post process is more cost effective but not necessarly easier.

When on a casual outing, such as last weekend's trip to Bosque del Apache in New Mexico, we took well over twelve-hundred pictures. If we had been using film, we would have taken a dozen rolls or so at best. That's approximately a 3:1 difference.

When it comes to shooting digital or film, the amount of photos you take should not a product of the format. Take the time to take the photograph you want the first time just as if it was film. The fact that there is not developing cost is no excuse for poor technique.

Assume that in a given shoot about 20% of the shots are worth printing. With digital, we would be (and are) printing about 220-250 pictures. If we had used film (Ektachrome), I would be exposing and developing about 80-90 Cibachrome prints.

Why would you be printing that many photos? Do you have a gallery showing? If you are using a digital camera why are you not embracing the value of digital? Print what you NEED. Store and show the rest in a digital format on a computer or TV. In 30 plus years of shooting film I developed my own most of the time. I only printed the photos I needed/wanted, not every photo I shot.

The cost of developing the Ektachrome slides and producing the Cibachrome prints in-house would be less (considerably less) than the ink and paper to make the digital prints.

Again, why are you printing that much? As with anything else, self control is a must. Print what you need. Save all the images. The file cabines, negative sleves, storage envelopes, I have full of negatives were expensive at the time. I could have bought hundreds if not thousands of cd's/dvd's for storage for the same money.

These "free" electronic images are bankrupting me!


"Any man who has $10,000 left when he dies is a failure."
Errol Flynn.


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boclcown
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Feb 25, 2007 11:49 |  #7

225-250 prints per outing? That is rediculous. Beyond rediculous. Absolutely stupid. What could you possibly, possibly need that many prints for? What is wrong with keeping all of the "better" pics in a folder and having that be your "good picture" folder. Ever heard of Flickr? Photobucket? Myspace?

Anyways, digital cameras were not made to simply be cheaper alternatives to film. They are much, much, much more complicated pieces of equipment. Though film may be of better quality (though now a days, that is hardly the case), it has no real advantages to digital on a technical standpoint. Digital cameras are just plain better and therefore justifiably more expensive.


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EcoRick
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Feb 25, 2007 11:59 as a reply to  @ boclcown's post |  #8

The fact that I can change my ISO settings without having multiple bodies pays for itself.


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Tony-S
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Feb 25, 2007 12:06 |  #9

boclcown wrote in post #2771987 (external link)
225-250 prints per outing? That is rediculous. Beyond rediculous. Absolutely stupid.

It's really inapproriate to use such language. Hopefully, you'll edit or delete your post.


"Raw" is not an acronym, abbreviation, nor a proper noun; thus, it should not be in capital letters.

  
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bieber
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Feb 25, 2007 12:16 |  #10

Tony-S wrote in post #2772091 (external link)
It's really inapproriate to use such language. Hopefully, you'll edit or delete your post.

You are joking, right?


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RikWriter
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Feb 25, 2007 12:20 |  #11

Tony-S wrote in post #2772091 (external link)
It's really inapproriate to use such language. Hopefully, you'll edit or delete your post.

You can't be serious.


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Tony-S
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Feb 25, 2007 12:22 |  #12

No, not joking, and yes, serious. Perhaps I should have focussed it to the "Absolutely stupid" part.


"Raw" is not an acronym, abbreviation, nor a proper noun; thus, it should not be in capital letters.

  
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Bob_A
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Feb 25, 2007 12:22 |  #13

I have to strongly agree with the original post that for me (YMMV) digital is WAY more expensive than film. If I were a pro or semi-pro I would say the opposite ... but I'm not.

I didn't buy an SLR or a DSLR to view prints on a computer monitor. For me, images are for printing ... passing around the kitchen table, putting them in albums, hanging them on walls or my fridge. My Smugmug account is simply a better way to share my images with family and friends along with providing additional back-up ... it certainly doesn't replace the printed images for me.

My 20D is two years old. It gets a lot of use, but strangely it only has a bit over 6000 actuations. Why? Because I shoot like I did when I shot film and try to get the exposure right before capturing the image. I even use a light meter and dabble at using the zone system. Yes, I'm an old curmudgeon :)

With the above, and like many here, I also like new toys and technology. Given this I will be enticed to upgrade every couple of years, where with film I only replaced a body once to go from a fully manual OM-1 that I used for over 20 years to an Elan II that I still have, but now rarely use. Before my OM-1 I used cheap Kodaks or a hand-me-down Ricoh that had been in my family for years.

Even my darkroom equipment is 30-35 years old and still works perfectly, where I can now expect to replace photo printers every 4 years or so.

So, for me, digital is more expensive. But I don't care ... I like it anyway.


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Eagle
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Feb 25, 2007 12:23 |  #14

scrane wrote in post #2771306 (external link)
Wow!
What do you do with 250 prints?

I haven't printed this many since I went all digital about two years ago.

RikWriter wrote in post #2771329 (external link)
I print out very very few of the images I shoot. I no longer print out 4x6s to put in photo albums---my photo album is my computer. If I want to share shots with friends or relatives I put them online or on a CD or DVD.

Same for me.


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Lord_Malone
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Feb 25, 2007 12:25 |  #15

Film is dead? :shock:


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