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Thread started 02 Mar 2007 (Friday) 19:45
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Benro KB-2 Ball Mount Tear Down

 
DocFrankenstein
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Mar 05, 2007 11:36 |  #16

squiress wrote in post #2818959 (external link)
Well, Markins has a titanium ball and casing that's only $925. Wow! They also go out of their way to insist that they are the only company to make use of hard surface annodization, at least on the exterior of their mounts. Nothing on the site that I could find about their internal hardware, except for the titanium model and that only mentioned case and base. (and something like the KB-1 is only $305)

Stew

I agree with you on all counts.

Benro is a great design

Markins is overpriced

Ballhead's capacity should be determined by the weight resting directly on top. (Which means that any ballhead can carry around 200 lbs)


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ajreid
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Mar 05, 2007 11:42 as a reply to  @ post 2818798 |  #17

This is a good post. I"d like to see more tear downs of other brands.




  
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squiress
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Mar 05, 2007 11:48 |  #18

DocFrankenstein wrote in post #2818990 (external link)
I agree with you on all counts.

Benro is a great design

Markins is overpriced

Ballhead's capacity should be determined by the weight resting directly on top. (Which means that any ballhead can carry around 200 lbs)

I don't agree with any of those statements. ;)

Stew


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squiress
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Mar 05, 2007 12:07 |  #19

My last reply was trite. Let me expand.

Benro is not a great design, however neither is it junk or crap. I think it's adequate for everyday use for a heck of a lot of photographers out there.

Markins is only overpriced in the sense that you are paying something for the name. If quality were equal and service was equal then name wouldn't mean anything and price would come down to maintain competition. I have adequate quality, so the better quality and engineering in Markin, say, means I won't be paying for name or better engineering that I won't use. I have gotten great service from my dealer and although convenience is an issue (she's in Montreal, I'm in Denver) that part isn't a problem.

The Markin site has in their specs both vertical load and torsional load limits. For the Q Ball M20 the load is 100 lbs, the torsional load is 190kgf-cm. There is a nifty video of the torsional load testing apparatus on the site that should be fairly straight forward to duplicate. It will be fun to see how the KB-2 does. All I have said is that I think load specified by Benro is vertical load; torsional load limit was not specified and would have been if meant.

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JohnJ80
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Mar 05, 2007 12:13 |  #20

squiress wrote in post #2818798 (external link)
As I said before, I have used this quite nicely with a Toyo 45AX. Not only heavier with its all metal body, but bulkier as well with large profile in wind. Very stable, although not 39#. I'll be adding weight in a variety of ways to further evaluate.

I respectfully disagree with the design being primative and that it's not meant to last. I have seen no other supporting information that shows anything being made any better by anybody. What other tear downs support your statement or what website can you direct me to that will show or demonstrate your comment?

I'll visit Markins as this appears to be the epitome of ball mounts.

Stew

By all means, please do a teardown on a markins unit. I'd very much love to see that. I'd take my M20 apart, but I need it big time this month and it is still under warranty.

I would not say 'epitome' but right up there with A-S, RRS and Kirk.

J.


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squiress
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Mar 05, 2007 12:17 |  #21

JohnJ80 wrote in post #2819186 (external link)
By all means, please do a teardown on a markins unit. I'd very much love to see that. I'd take my M20 apart, but I need it big time this month and it is still under warranty.

I would not say 'epitome' but right up there with A-S, RRS and Kirk.

J.

Are there screws on the bottom that indicate that the base is removeable? ;)

Stew


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bungee
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Mar 05, 2007 14:07 |  #22

I'd rather hear actual experiences of people who own Benro heads than the assumptions of those who don't.


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JohnJ80
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Mar 05, 2007 14:25 |  #23

squiress wrote in post #2819220 (external link)
Are there screws on the bottom that indicate that the base is removeable? ;)

Stew

I'll look but I'm not going to take it apart for at least the next 60 days. I've got a couple of projects I need to finish first that require this head.

J.


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CyberDyneSystems
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Mar 05, 2007 14:50 |  #24

Excellent and thorough review!
It's "stuck" now..


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squiress
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Mar 06, 2007 08:20 |  #25

I wanted to add a bit about tortional versus static vertical loading and use the very nice videos on www.markinsamerica.com (external link) site. The tortional test shows that the kind of test done by Webster in his review (camera with lens hanging off it mounted to ball mount at camera instead of using tripod ring on lens) would probably do pretty well. If I've read the scale right they are hanging a 6-7kg weight on the bar and moving it out 45cm. That's a pretty good tortional load (7x45=315kg-cm). At the same time the video of the Nikon 800mm lens shows the benefit of balancing the lens over the ball. Although it appears really stable after each movement, it doesn't go anywhere because the lens never has a preponderance of its mass on one side or the other of the mount. Kinda like a tightrope walker with a long balance bar in his hands. The much more important aspect of the Nikon 800 on the ball mount would be how quickly it dampens after moving it. The video isn't really able to show that, nor how stable it actually is when locked down. Still, good stuff!

Stew


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JohnJ80
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Mar 06, 2007 09:07 |  #26

What do you mean it doesn't show a preponderance of the mass on one side or the other? It's got the camera body out on the end of a long lever arm!

You are correct about the vibration damping. Would be very nice to see what that looks like. Although, I do have to admit that the Markins ballhead I have is the most rigid clamping and best friction control of the ballheads I have (markins and RRS). When it is locked down, it is locked down hard.

J.


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Jon
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Mar 06, 2007 10:12 |  #27

JohnJ80 wrote in post #2824664 (external link)
What do you mean it doesn't show a preponderance of the mass on one side or the other? It's got the camera body out on the end of a long lever arm!

You are correct about the vibration damping. Would be very nice to see what that looks like. Although, I do have to admit that the Markins ballhead I have is the most rigid clamping and best friction control of the ballheads I have (markins and RRS). When it is locked down, it is locked down hard.

J.

And the fairly hefty front lens elements out at the other end of the combo.


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squiress
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Mar 06, 2007 12:39 |  #28

Jon wrote in post #2824874 (external link)
And the fairly hefty front lens elements out at the other end of the combo.

Exactly, the lens is nicely balanced by tube and camera on one side and ALL that glass on the other side.:D Also this video is a demonstration of the tension control, not locking it down hard. No one is manipulating knobs on the mount, just the camera and lens. When they first move it the tripod shifts as well so it's tensioned pretty hard.

Stew


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Lightstream
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Mar 08, 2007 06:04 |  #29

First up, big thank you to squiress for doing the teardown. Your tone comes across as very much more professional and objective. Indeed, even if one had something negative to say, saying it in a professional manner actually lends credibility.

bungee wrote in post #2819788 (external link)
I'd rather hear actual experiences of people who own Benro heads than the assumptions of those who don't.

I'll address this.. many of my favorite shots, some of which as long as 30 seconds, have been shot on my KS-1. Not even the -2, the -1 is rated for substantially less weight. I put a fair bit of mileage on it shooting for 9 months with it, and I don't regret my purchase in the least.

Ballhead load ratings are always very, VERY optimistic. I agree that one should derate them to 1/3rd of their officially spec'ed capacity for smooth, stable and creep-free operation. When this is taken into account, the KS-1 delivered. I put a 100-400 with tripod collar onto the KS-1 and then mounted a Canon 1D on the back. That's a six pound setup. Only minor creep was observed and the lock knobs had to be tightened down to absolute maximum settings.

I upgraded to a Markins Q3 eventually, not because the Benro was ineffective, but rather that someone bought my KS-1 off me and my dealer talked me into the Q3 (yes, I am weak ;) ). So yes, I do have some experience with quality ballheads. I have also used the Benro in the field alongside a real, honest-to-goodness Arca Swiss B1 on a Gitzo tripod setup. 100% the real deal.

The most important part however, was that the Benro offers a real Arca-compatible QR system. I have a big problem with proprietary QR systems because if you do choose to upgrade, your entire QR plate investment is nullified. The Arca standard is the closest we have to an 'open' standard. When I upgraded to the Q3, ALL my accessories remained relevant because the Q3 is also an Arca-compatible mount. NOBODY ELSE offers an Arca-compatible mount at the KS-1's price point. (if I am wrong, I would be very keen to hear about the alternatives available)

I'd like to end by stating that in no way am I related to Benro, just a very satisfied user who feels that they are often not given the credit they deserve. There is a very strong mentality that says "because it's made in China it must suck". Go back half a century; change that to "because it's made in Japan it must suck". Well guess where all the nice Canon glass is made.. ;) (note, 18-55 - made in Taiwan, and the exception).

From the first day I looked at their hardware, in no way did they ever endeavor to pass themselves off as a real Arca or Gitzo. Never. Many of the inferences have been made by us - and they remain just that, inferences. The price is not comparable, neither is the performance. If you want a real Gitzo, feel free to shell out the $500 for it. But for everybody else looking for a midrange tripod that is not going to slap a 300/2.8 IS USM L onto it, it's good value. Yes, the huge supertele users need exceptional stability and top notch engineering that can only come with some of the ultra-premium tripods. How many of us here own the 300/2.8?

I have always been very candid about that too - I specifically said that by the time comes where I can afford a 300/2.8 ISL, I can damn well pony up for a better tripod, maybe a Gitzo Series 3 or something like that. And that day is a LONG time coming.

BTW, I still have my A127n6 legset (with the Q3 on top) because it is tremendously good value. Carbon fiber would increase max loading capacity by a couple of pounds, decrease weight by half a pound, and lighten my wallet by 3X more. Can't justify that.

In the meantime, use it in good health and fret less. You know what? I certainly will use mine and see absolutely no need to worry about it, nor any indication that it is affecting my image quality when I shoot the 5D and 17-40 or 24-105 on it. In fact, it's going up this weekend with me on a fireworks shoot. :)




  
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Karl.
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Mar 08, 2007 08:00 |  #30

Nice thread!

Not only did we get a superb tear down of a Benro head, this thread also sheds some light on how these heads keep up with normal wear and tear.

Personally this is/was my main worry. I'm pretty sure a Benro will work well directly out of the box, but what after one year, two years of use?? The info/reviews available on the net doesn't answer this question very well.

@Lightstream:
Did your Benro require both knobs to be tightened every time you wanted to fix the head? As I understand this could be one problem with the 3-knob version (compared to the KJ series).




  
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Benro KB-2 Ball Mount Tear Down
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