first motorcycle shots

Good point!

WOW! not quite sure yet as I'm putting pics into ADOBE but I think todays action sled shots ( for my first time ) may have turned out ok at least.... with everyone's help and advice so thanks a TON

will post link back in original thread and here

wicked post above Trackday.net !!

again cheers!

Trackday.Net wrote in post #2888958
It varies depending on the organizer and their clientele. I will not go into the financial statistics. However, I will say that it is enough to support my hobby. Personally, anyone can make a good living from it. I'm not a particularly good photog, however, I seem to be in very good demand considering I book events a year and a half ahead. I generally fully book the following year by June/July. I encourage you go have a go at it. However, you will need to be a bit more diversified than I am considering I have a constant and consistent set of events all year round.

With regards to my site, thanks. I post ALL pictures taken during an event. Yes, it's more than 5 per rider. In light of the new competition coming into my market (So NV, Phoenix Metro area, and SoCal) I've bumped up my capture rate to about 3k-5K per day. Quality suffers considering the amount of bursts I now do. Before you go into it, understand your market. That involves getting a clear idea of what type of pictures people will buy and who your competition is/are. Understand this, the pictures that photographers like generally do not translate to what will sell in a retail environment. Photogs are all about telling a story. A person buying a photo, at a consistent rate (meaning every event) could care less about the story you want to tell. They are more interested in how their vehicle or how they themselves are performing so that they can make adjustments to better improve their time. You can sell an artistic photo to one person only once. You can sell the same angle, same vehicle, same rider, same driver, let's face it, the same darn photo to the same darn person over and over again, trackday in trackday out provided you market your photos as a training tool. Being consistent helps a lot too.

I don't quite agree with that. I think riders/drivers are equally vain and like an artistic photo of themselves just as much as a technical photo. In a lot of cases trackday photogs, to put it simply, suck. They (riders/drivers) have never had a choice in the type of trackday photo they can have, they've never had the opportunity to get a quality "artistic" shot that they would want on their wall or desk or what have you.

For as many regulars at the track who purchase a CD everytime out their is a comparable market of participants who can't afford in either funds or time the opportunity to do more than one trackday/event a year. Those people are looking for something special beyond the typical form analysis pic. Further, in a lot of cases those beginner and one time riders/drivers are to put it honestly, slow and have poor form (in case of motorcycles), helping them enjoy their track experience by making them look good through the lens certaintly doesn't hurt.

I have had the same experience with professional and amateur racers as well. Sure they want a CD to analyze their form but than they choose that crazy 1/50th of a sec, blurred everything, screwing around photo to have printed.

I just don't think it's black and white. Of course the median is to take both and offer both. Which is certaintly easier when you have a business partner taking photos as well, but that really cuts into your potential profits.

If these are the original framing, that's some great composition. But it does appear a bit overexposed.

Trackday.Net wrote in post #2893535
In my experience, the artistic shot is a one time deal. The technical shot is a recurring purchase. Initially in my market (1999 through 2003), there were at least 4 photographers per event. 3 of those photographers concentrated on the artistic shot and were definitely better photographers than I will ever be. They took the time to be real photographers. I took the business approach.

I'm not as interested in the person that can only afford to do one trackday a year versus a person that does twelve events a year. There isn't that much opportunity to sell to this single event type of customer. It's a matter of dollars and sense. Definitely black and white, or should I say, black and red.

I completely agree with ya on this one. I tried my hand at mass selling shooting and it really was not a match for me. Your whole approach to shooting is different. Likewise, photogrounalistic shots are complety different then artistic. I've been doing PJ stuff again for the last two years, and am now remembering why I quit doing it some nearly 20 years ago when I was a staffer. Your approach is very time different, in approach, then you do to an artistic shot, or for mass sales. I could never do what you do. I shoot to have something I would want to hand on my wall. When I shot "production" stuff, there just wasn't the time to worry about the smallest details. You just need to shoot the safest shots as possible.

But net/net, they are different. Painting all types of shooting the same over generalizes.

Lastly.... f5.6 upward increases contrast. There are times when you do or don't want that contrast.