RAW&NOISE:how did it happen?(56K warning,&even 16K modem users -beware!)

hi, sorry for another RAW question: but I thought I would have a dabble in RAW and so far I have not been too happy with the results. There are 2 (LARGE!!) photos that I can use as examples. One shot in RAW and saved to jpeg by Adobe Camera RAW and the other shot in JPEG on the Camera.

RAW (saved to JPEG from a RAW edited in Adobe Camera RAW):
www.butterpeanut.com/c​anong3/rolleiflexT.jpg

JPEG (in camera):
http://www.butterpeanu​t.com/canong3/rolleifl​exT_jpeg.jpg

The jpeg that was processed 'in camera' (350D) contains hardly any noise, but the RAW photo converted to jpeg in Adobe Camera RAW and shows LOADS of noise. How can this be?

The settings that I used for the RAW conversion in CR2 were AUTO, then changed the WB to 'Tungsten', and then I just hit OPEN, so it opened in PS2 and then cropped to square format and then saved as a JPEG.

Any ideas how I can get rid of all this noise? If I keep getting results like this I will have to switch back to JPEG.

[BTW, the original photos were taken on a lovely old RolleiflexT, and these examples are just 'photos of photos' ]

For the RAW photo, did you have to increase the exposure in Adobe Camera RAW? If so, this introduces noise quickly. If you shot the RAW file with perfect exposure, then you should have been fine. What is the ISO you used for both?

the big difference is that JPEGS are processed "in-camera" which includes noise-reduction. RAWs are just that, RAW -- no processing whatsoever. I suggest that you run your RAW file through DPP (it has built-in noise reduction) or noise ninja, etc.

roeddel wrote in post #2914308
the big difference is that JPEGS are processed "in-camera" which includes noise-reduction. RAWs are just that, RAW -- no processing whatsoever. I suggest that you run your RAW file through DPP (it has built-in noise reduction) or noise ninja, etc.

I ran both through Noise Ninja. The photo was at ISO 400. Exposure for both JPEG and the RAW was the same. But in Camera Raw the RAW image was pumped up +1.35 with AUTO being applied.

the thing is, same settings in camera (only difference is setting either RAW or JPG) and so different results.....

Here is another beautiful () but LARGE image from the Rollie with heaps of noise from the Canon RAW processed in Adobe Camera RAW:

http://www.butterpeanu​t.com/canong3/rolleifl​exTb.jpg

The REDS in particular are badly affected...

....and if anyone wants to have a bash at the original CR2, it is here:

www.butterpeanut.com/c​anong3/IMG_0156.CR2

If bad exposure is to blame (I admit it was badly under exposed) then the JPEG wins in this circumstance...


And Finally, the same image processed in Canon RAW Image (this is slightly better in my opinion)

http://www.butterpeanu​t.com/canong3/Canon_RA​W_Image.JPG

(I have no idea what DPP is - please can someone elaborate?)

...ok, afterwards, i ran the image through DPP and got some better results (having to Google what DPP was; never heard of it before) but still with the excessive file size (duplicate copies, as TIFF, JPEG etc), lengthened workflow time, I am thinking perhaps it is better to stick to 'accurately exposed' JPEG processed in Camera. This will save time and HDD space. Still I will continue to experiment. Thanks for all the advise and tips so far...

Andrew, as far as I can tell, from looking at your CR2 file, you have taken a photograph of a printed photograph and you are complaining about noise in the print. I don't see noise in the surrounding surface - table top or whatever it is - just some texture to the surface. So it looks to me like your original print has the noise problem, not the new photograph of it.

Why don't you photograph an object other than a printed photo, such as a coffee mug or TV remote control or even a real car!, and judge noise from that?

tdodd wrote in post #2916693
Andrew, as far as I can tell, from looking at your CR2 file, you have taken a photograph of a printed photograph and you are complaining about noise in the print. I don't see noise in the surrounding surface - table top or whatever it is - just some texture to the surface. So it looks to me like your original print has the noise problem, not the new photograph of it.

Why don't you photograph an object other than a printed photo, such as a coffee mug or TV remote control or even a real car!, and judge noise from that?

i was not complaining of noise in the print, but in the RAW file.

yep, i will do some more testing and post some results, but the photo itself (that I took a photo of) is crystal clear (taken on a rollei on ISO 100 Superia film)

but from my late night testing last night (i was getting pretty tired by the end of it) i concluded that DPP was good and Adobe Camera RAW was awful with the same picture. Am I missing a Adobe Camera RAW profile for my camera (350D) or something? i.e. do camera profiles need to be added accordingly to Adobe Camera RAW for it to yield better results?

Well my point is that I do not see any noise in your CR2 file. I've opened it in DPP, zoomed to 100%, boosted exposure by +2.0 stops and still I do not see any noise in the creamy coloured table top. I don't know why you chose to set your EC to -2/3 stops but that's not really the issue. The noise is in the print. It is not in the photo you have taken with the the 350D!

Here is a screen print of my desktop with your CR2 original raw file opened in DPP, zoomed to 100% and with exposure boosted by 2.0 stops. I do not have any noise reduction enabled in DPP. I can't see any sign of noise in the creamy background, just the print in the photo.

http://picasaweb.googl​e.com …photo#504506377​7247579202

So in other words there is no visible noise in your raw file - except the noise already present in the print.

it was in DPP that it worked better, but in Adobe Camera RAW that I was having the issues. On the CR2 file that I attached the RED Brake lights were showing a lot of noise when I processed in Adobe Camera RAW. As I was asking, is there a 'profile' for the 350D that I need to add to the Adobe Camera RAW application that I am missing that may cause this noise?

I personally don't like ACR and always used to prefer DPP instead. Now I use Lightroom as my raw (and jpeg) editor of choice.

I'm not aware that there are any noise profiles to use in ACR but I trust you understand that by default ACR makes automatic adjustments to your photo, changing things like exposure/brightness/co​ntrast as it sees fit. Sometimes this works well. Other times it is a disaster. From memory you press Ctrl-U to toggle the automatic settings on and off. It would not surprise me if the auto settings have royally screwed up your photo. The rendition in DPP is the honest truth. That is what your photo looks like.

Yep DPP worked brilliantly in comparison.. more testing to come (when I get home)
thanks fo r advise.

Here is a similar screenprint of your CR2 file at 100% zoom in Lightroom but with no adjustments to exposure etc....

http://picasaweb.googl​e.com …photo#504507855​6230044754

At 100% there is some grainy appearance in the car but the colour noise has vanished. At normal viewing size (not 100%!) the noise is really not evident.

Your camera is fine. It is definitely ACR that is playing up.

well, i see my camera (350D) is supported - apparently - by ACR:

http://www.adobe.com …/photoshop/came​raraw.html

andrewaaa5 wrote in post #2914281
...The settings that I used for the RAW conversion in CR2 were AUTO...

IMO this is your problem. The AUTO settings in ACR suck for the lack of a better word. They are fine for snapshots that you don't want to spend any time on but otherwise don't use them. If you are truly interested in geting the most from ACR pick up Bruce Fraser's book Real World Camera RAW for CS2. There is loads of info that will open your eyes to RAW and the workflow involved.

You're working in the dark here... ACR is not calibrated for your camera/sensor... furthermore, it's not going to handle the noise worth a damn. I2P is correct... auto ACR sucks... you can't depend on it and I've yet to figure out what they based default ACR settings on. You need to calibrate ACR if you are going to use it with your camera. If you use it, you'll have to take care of your noise in another third party plugin. (or PS)