Canon 580EX - questions

Using it with either a 30D or 5D.

I've read the manual plus some tutorials, but am unclear about a few points.

E-ttl: The canon faq I found is old and focuses on older equipment. Is it still accurate that with e-ttl in the p-ae, tv, and av modes, the maximum shutter speed is 1/125 (when not using fp mode)?

Evaluative metering: I prefer shooting everything in M mode using center spot metering/focus. Common shootflow: centerspot meter light/dark zones, set for best exposure, centerspot focus on chosen focal point, move and recompose, shoot.

So a couple of questions about using the 580ex and this method.

Re: a picture outdoors, bright light, person in foreground (but to the left or right in the frame) with (whatever) background. Question - is this accurate: I manually set exposure using dark and light spot metering on background, move center spot over person, press for auto focus, move and recompose then shoot. In this case, will fill flash automatically kick in, using evaluative (flash) metering to properly fill the person? Or do I need to have the camera set in eval metering in the first place, using that to set exposure on the background (instead of centerspot)? In other words, are centerspot and evaluative metering totally independent when using the 580ex that if I am using centerspot to manually determine exposure, at actual exposure time the e-ttl pre-flash will kick in, using evaluative metering, determine fill needed, and properly fill? (whew, hope that made sense).

Exact same question when indoors under low light conditions and a person in the foreground, to the side? Can I still meter manually using centerspot?

Also, in the above outdoor/bright light scenario, can I have the shutter set above 1/125 without setting the flash in FP mode?

Thanks, I know that's a lot but any help is appreciated. /Dan

CannedHeat wrote in post #2917314
Using it with either a 30D or 5D.

I've read the manual plus some tutorials, but am unclear about a few points.

E-ttl: The canon faq I found is old and focuses on older equipment. Is it still accurate that with e-ttl in the p-ae, tv, and av modes, the maximum shutter speed is 1/125 (when not using fp mode)?

Evaluative metering: I prefer shooting everything in M mode using center spot metering/focus. Common shootflow: centerspot meter light/dark zones, set for best exposure, centerspot focus on chosen focal point, move and recompose, shoot.

So a couple of questions about using the 580ex and this method.

Re: a picture outdoors, bright light, person in foreground (but to the left or right in the frame) with (whatever) background. Question - is this accurate: I manually set exposure using dark and light spot metering on background, move center spot over person, press for auto focus, move and recompose then shoot. In this case, will fill flash automatically kick in, using evaluative (flash) metering to properly fill the person? Or do I need to have the camera set in eval metering in the first place, using that to set exposure on the background (instead of centerspot)? In other words, are centerspot and evaluative metering totally independent when using the 580ex that if I am using centerspot to manually determine exposure, at actual exposure time the e-ttl pre-flash will kick in, using evaluative metering, determine fill needed, and properly fill? (whew, hope that made sense).

Depending on what camera you have, fill flash may or may not kick in but your flash will fire. With the current EOS cameras, you will probably need to use -FEC to decrease the flash output since there is no automatic reduction for fill flash on the newer cameras. The older cameras, like the 10D, provide fill flash reduction automatically if it is not turned off via a custom function.

Since ambient metering and flash metering are independent of each other, you can use spot metering to meter your ambient light and the camera will use evaulative metering for the flash as long as the custom function for the flash is set to evaluative (on the newer models) which is the default. The other choice is Average which is probably not what you want in this case.

CannedHeat wrote in post #2917314

Exact same question when indoors under low light conditions and a person in the foreground, to the side? Can I still meter manually using centerspot?

Yes. In this case, you'll need to decide which light source you want to use as the main light and adjust the other accordingly.

CannedHeat wrote in post #2917314

Also, in the above outdoor/bright light scenario, can I have the shutter set above 1/125 without setting the flash in FP mode?

Thanks, I know that's a lot but any help is appreciated. /Dan

You can have the shutter speed set to whatever your camera's max sync speed is (1/200 or 1/250) or slower.

The most important key words in Leo's response:

PacAce wrote in post #2917418
ambient metering and flash metering are independent of each other.

The camera's metering modes (Evaluative, CW Average, Partial, Spot) apply only to the ambient metering.

The flash metering mode is set with custom function 14 (Evaluative or Average), or with Flash Exposure Lock (which uses Partial or Spot flash metering).

The Bob Atkins article you referenced is pretty dated. A lot of it doesn't apply to digital cameras at all, and the E-TTL system has been enhanced/changed since that article was written.

The EOS Flash Bible (link in my signature) would be a better resource. It's a bit long, but it has internal bookmarks to help you find what you need. It's definitely worth printing out for reference.

Thanks PacAce and Curtis. Yes, I started reading the EOS flash bible last night. Man, it's long but if we want to learn we've got to invest the time.

So as I understand it, on a bright day using fill flash, I will need to set FP mode on because normally, shutter speeds will be above 1/250.

Any more links from anybody about flash tutorials are greatly appreciated. /Dan

CannedHeat wrote in post #2917888
on a bright day using fill flash, I will need to set FP mode on because normally, shutter speeds will be above 1/250.

Depends on the aperture you want. "Sunny 16" would put you at about f/10 with shutter speed at 1/250. If you want wide apertures and out-of-focus backgrounds, then FP flash is a viable option, but pay attention to the distance scale on the flash, since your range will be reduced.

Curtis N wrote in post #2917973
Depends on the aperture you want. "Sunny 16" would put you at about f/10 with shutter speed at 1/250. If you want wide apertures and out-of-focus backgrounds, then FP flash is a viable option, but pay attention to the distance scale on the flash, since your range will be reduced.

Darn it all! I just may give this up!

This new-fangled flash photography stuff is just too hard. I may go back to just shooting landscapes. It's a whole lot easier!

CannedHeat wrote in post #2918326
This new-fangled flash photography stuff is just too hard. I may go back to just shooting landscapes. It's a whole lot easier!

Adding some of your own light does make things more complicated, but don't let it intimidate you.

For outdoor fill, start this way: Tv mode at 1/250, ISO 100, flash in Evaluative E-TTL mode (custom function 14-0), start with FEC at around -2/3 and chimp and adjust from there.

You can go ahead and turn on FP Flash. Even with this function turned on, it will only use FP when the shutter speed goes over 1/250.

Now if you want to do a nice portrait with a blurry background, all you need to do is switch to Av mode, set your aperture, and shoot. For this type of shot, you'll usually be close enough.