STICKY:  Color problems? [work in progress?]

I have a question as well... When I print, the prints appear to be darker than what I see on my screen. Colors match up pretty well, just darker. I read your Color Management thread Rene, and it said that the possible user error is my luminance is set too high.

So far what I've done
1. Calibrate my monitor using SpiderPro. Gamma 2.2, Whitepoint 6500K, luminance 110cd/m^2
2. Converted my photoshop profile to sRGB (probably not necessarily, but I've posted the pics on the web so I did it for that reason).
3. Downloaded the printer profiles from the company I'm using
4. I've tried "soft proofing" by using their printer profiles and the shadows in the prints are much darker than what I see on screen. (not much difference from sRGB though, so I'm guessing *most* of my colors are in gamut)

I've played around with the settings changing the rendering intent from relative chrominance to perceptual. I've changed simulate black ink from on to off, I've changed simulate paper color.

When I turn "black point compensation" off, it gets closer, but still not close enough, and from the web-tutorials I've read, I should leave this set to "on".


How do I match the darkness of the shadows better? Thanks.

Not exactly sure what you are saying.

IVIax wrote in post #9489586
I have a question as well... When I print, the prints appear to be darker than what I see on my screen. Colors match up pretty well, just darker. I read your Color Management thread Rene, and it said that the possible user error is my luminance is set too high.

Yes, that's the most likely the reason if the whole image appears dark.

IVIax wrote in post #9489586
So far what I've done
1. Calibrate my monitor using SpiderPro. Gamma 2.2, Whitepoint 6500K, luminance 110cd/m^2

Good.

IVIax wrote in post #9489586
2. Converted my photoshop profile to sRGB (probably not necessarily, but I've posted the pics on the web so I did it for that reason).

I assume you mean that you converted the images to sRGB working space?

IVIax wrote in post #9489586
3. Downloaded the printer profiles from the company I'm using
4. I've tried "soft proofing" by using their printer profiles and the shadows in the prints are much darker than what I see on screen.

Just the shadows?
Do you print at home? If so: This might be worth a read / try:
http://www.getcolorman​aged.com/color-management/testprint/

There's also a link in the end of the article there that shows a way to just lighten the shadows (they tend to be a bit too dark in many cases)

IVIax wrote in post #9489586
(not much difference from sRGB though, so I'm guessing *most* of my colors are in gamut)

Not exactly sure what you mean here? You're saying the colors don't change much?
Then indeed, it's likely most colors are in gamut (the Gamut warning will tell you )

IVIax wrote in post #9489586
I've played around with the settings changing the rendering intent from relative chrominance to perceptual. I've changed simulate black ink from on to off, I've changed simulate paper color.

Relative colorimetric or Perceptual are both okay. Sometimes one works better, sometimes the other.
"Simulate paper color" tries to match the appearance of "ink on paper" on your screen.
Takes a bit of getting used to, but is the most accurate way to softproof IMO.
(simulate black ink is automatically turned on then)

IVIax wrote in post #9489586
When I turn "black point compensation" off, it gets closer, but still not close enough, and from the web-tutorials I've read, I should leave this set to "on".

It should be on.
Then again, if you get a better match...

IVIax wrote in post #9489586
How do I match the darkness of the shadows better? Thanks.

I'd open a duplicate of the image, compare them side by side (softproofing the duplicate) and use an adjustment layer to lighten the shadows prior to printing...

(Basically as described in the video by J.P. Caponigro in my blogpost. (Direct link))

René Damkot wrote in post #9490418
Yes, that's the most likely the reason if the whole image appears dark.

So should I adjust my luminance to lower than 110?

René Damkot wrote in post #9490418
I assume you mean that you converted the images to sRGB working space?

Yes, sorry.

René Damkot wrote in post #9490418
Just the shadows?
Do you print at home? If so: This might be worth a read / try:
http://www.getcolorman​aged.com/color-management/testprint/

There's also a link in the end of the article there that shows a way to just lighten the shadows (they tend to be a bit too dark in many cases)

It may actually be the whole image, but it is much more apparent in the shadow region (they are close to clipping in the shot, and they clip in the prints) -- I'll take a closer look when I get home.

I do not print at home, I send the prints out and while softproofing I'm using the ICC profiles the printing company supplied me.


I'll take a look at the article, thanks.

René Damkot wrote in post #9490418
Relative colorimetric or Perceptual are both okay. Sometimes one works better, sometimes the other.
"Simulate paper color" tries to match the appearance of "ink on paper" on your screen.
Takes a bit of getting used to, but is the most accurate way to softproof IMO.
(simulate black ink is automatically turned on then)

Thanks.

René Damkot wrote in post #9490418
I'd open a duplicate of the image, compare them side by side (softproofing the duplicate) and use an adjustment layer to lighten the shadows prior to printing...

(Basically as described in the video by J.P. Caponigro in my blogpost. (Direct link))

Thanks, I'll check out the video.


Maybe I'm wrong here, but I thought that if I calibrated my monitor and used the printer profiles in softproofing that I would get a very accurate match and wouldn't have to still adjust the shadows? I feel that it defeats the purpose of going through all the effort, just to still make adjustments before sending to print. Do you know what I mean? Or am I just misinformed? EDIT: I guess I was misinformed , the first article you gave me starts off with this...

EDIT2: That article is great, thanks. I think that explains where my discrepancies are coming from.

Yeah. Like I wrote:

If you have important shadow detail that's too dark in print, you might need to brighten it a bit.

It's important to take into consideration the viewing conditions of the print as well

I never understood why whenever I upload a picture to sites such as POTN or My Shot Nat'l Geo, the colors are different. The most recent set I uploaded on the Sports forum showed extreme noise & the colors were lighter.

After just reading the first few posts on this thread, I followed the instructions on converting the profile to sRGB. I then uploaded the photos again to check & YEP, the colors are the same as how I see it on my monitor at home! Thank you so much for all these tips! I need to get a Pantone Huey this week.

One question, though - well more like 2. Is there a way for me to do "bulk" conversion of the photos to sRGB? I have started shooting in RAW; make adjustments using Bridge & save the photos in JPEG - CS4 saves it as AdobeRGB. Now I will be converting each JPEG photo's profile to sRGB. Am I doing redundancy here &/or is there a more efficient way of going about this?

Select all images in Bridge, then go Tools > Photoshop > Image Processor.

Thanks, Rene! This is the first thing I'm going check on my computer when I get home.

I'm in desperate need of some help. I have calibrated both my 2209WA and my laptop monitor with Eye One Display 2 to 6500k and 2.2 gamma. My laptop can only manage 90 lumins, whereas my 2209 is at 120, but both still show colors completely different.

Now my main concern is that on my laptop my images look different in IE and color managed Firefox, even though I save the file as SRGB and embedd the ICC profile. On my 2209WA, the image looks exactly how I want it in both IE and Firefox.

http://www.modelmayhem​.com/portfolio/pic/173​98893
http://www.modelmayhem​.com/portfolio/pic/173​99469
Those images of mine in particular. On my laptop I want the image to look in IE as they do in Firefox, what should I be doing to achieve this? Most of my viewer base has uncalibrated monitors and are most likely using IE, so I want to make sure they are seeing what my intent is, but I can't even get what I see in photoshop with color space as sRGB to show up in IE at all.

Intotheblue wrote in post #10077262
I'm in desperate need of some help. I have calibrated both my 2209WA and my laptop monitor with Eye One Display 2 to 6500k and 2.2 gamma. My laptop can only manage 90 lumins, whereas my 2209 is at 120, but both still show colors completely different.

In what software? In color managed software, the images should look at least close...

Intotheblue wrote in post #10077262
Now my main concern is that on my laptop my images look different in IE and color managed Firefox,

That's the nature of the beast I'm afraid..

Intotheblue wrote in post #10077262
even though I save the file as SRGB and embedd the ICC profile. On my 2209WA, the image looks exactly how I want it in both IE and Firefox.

Probably your 2209WA is close to sRGB, and your laptop is not. That's why you see a bigger difference between color managed and not color managed on your laptop..

Intotheblue wrote in post #10077262
Those images of mine in particular. On my laptop I want the image to look in IE as they do in Firefox, what should I be doing to achieve this?

Only option is to convert to your laptops monitor profile. Then it will look identical on your laptop in IE and FF. But it will look off on everybody elses computer in IE...

Intotheblue wrote in post #10077262
Most of my viewer base has uncalibrated monitors and are most likely using IE, so I want to make sure they are seeing what my intent is, but I can't even get what I see in photoshop with color space as sRGB to show up in IE at all.

Like I said; nature of the beast. Nothing you can do...
Use sRGB and hope your viewer base has better screens then your laptop...

i have very little idea when it comes to colour. but...

ive bought a eye1display2, and calibrated my screen. is there anything i need to do with PS or LR now?

in PS: colour settings>working spaces = sRGB

in LR: preferences>external editing(for PS) = sRGB
there is nothing i can find in LR which controls the colour of the photos i see WITHIN LR

also, why is it that when i print screen and paste in PS the colours look wierd? i need to change profile of the image to my monitor profile(made by xrite) - does that mean it calibrated it wrong?

lastly, why is it that images in chrome look different my computer, eg when i look at photos on my flickr in chrome

eventsof1768 wrote in post #11280635
i have very little idea when it comes to colour. but...

ive bought a eye1display2, and calibrated my screen. is there anything i need to do with PS or LR now?

No. PS and LR know what monitor profile the OS uses.
You don't need to set anything.

eventsof1768 wrote in post #11280635
in PS: colour settings>working spaces = sRGB

in LR: preferences>external editing(for PS) = sRGB

Good.
A bit more on Photoshop color settings: http://www.getcolorman​aged.com …nagement/pscolo​rsettings/

eventsof1768 wrote in post #11280635
there is nothing i can find in LR which controls the colour of the photos i see WITHIN LR

That's correct.

eventsof1768 wrote in post #11280635
also, why is it that when i print screen and paste in PS the colours look wierd? i need to change profile of the image to my monitor profile(made by xrite) - does that mean it calibrated it wrong?

No. But (assuming windows) your screenshot probably has either no, or the wrong color space: It should have your monitor profile, but it has none or sRGB.
If you paste into photoshop it will look wrong. You can correct this by assigning your monitor profile, then convert to sRGB (for web posting).

eventsof1768 wrote in post #11280635
lastly, why is it that images in chrome look different my computer, eg when i look at photos on my flickr in chrome

Chrome is not colormanaged, so the difference you see is caused by the difference between sRGB and your monitor profile.

https://photography-on-the.net …php?p=8077755#p​ost8077755

thanks rene

so if i were to go one step further, and print stuff, ill have to dl the profile and use that profile in photoshop 'working spaces'? then what about LR?

eventsof1768 wrote in post #11283604
so if i were to go one step further, and print stuff, ill have to dl the profile and use that profile in photoshop 'working spaces'?

No.
You keep on using sRGB, AdobeRGB or whatever your preferred working space is.
Edit the image, and in the end softproof using the printer/paper profile. Correct (use adjustment layers) as needed, print.
Some links in the first post of this thread.

eventsof1768 wrote in post #11283604
then what about LR?

Nothing

Just to help me understand the function of monitor profile

suppose I manually associate a monitor with a mismatched profile in Windows 7, which should resulted in a great display difference between my monitor and calibrated monitors.

but an image displayed in windows picture and in Photoshop on my monitor should still look identical? Ignoring other aspects, such as different color spaces( sRBG ARGB).

Depends. If the display profile also loads the wrong data into the LUT, everything will be off...