DPP and monitor profiles - confused

I guess the takeaway for me is to avoid labs that don't color manage. Or if I'm going to be using them, to switch to sRGB viewing to kind of see what will be produced.

In the mean while, just keep things calibrated and use monitor profile in DPP.

Thanks all.

derxia wrote in post #12370255
Please elaborate, Rene. Do you know where the problem lies? Is it my monitor, my eyes, my images, or my settings?

Like I said, I get better colors when set to sRGB. The images are dull and less saturated when I set viewing profile to my monitor's. Also, I know the labs don't print them this dull. So why do I want to color manage and make it harder on me?

There's gotta be a fix somehow...I just have to find it.

"Better" is personal, and does not equal "more accurate". To me too, the less saturated looks better.
But that's a guessing game, since neither image have an embedded profile, so I have no way of telling what the images look like to you…

However, if you set DPP to use sRGB as monitor profile, it will display wrong: The image will show up different in Photoshop. What do you do then? Switch off colormanagement in PS as well?

If the lab makes an error and doesn't print the image more saturated then PS (or DPP when set to color manage) shows the image, that might be closer to what you see on your screen in a non color managed application, but that's a coincidence.
What happens when you get a new screen? That's a guessing game.

If you have a color managed workflow, you make sure all you do is right. Then you make sure you use a printer that also correctly color manages. And then you have predicable, consistent, prints.

tzalman wrote in post #12370542
Agreed. Saturated may look impressive on a striped shirt, but not on a girls face.

Ditto that

Yes, the "monitor" image is how I see them in DPP (set viewing profile to monitor). You guys are seeing the same thing I am because it's an untagged image that uses my monitor's calibrated profile.

The reddish sRGB image is how the prints look like when I get them back from places like Costco, Sam's Club, and Target. You guys are seeing the same thing I am because it is a tagged sRGB image exported via PS.

Which brings me back to my point. It seems to like I am seeing one thing and the labs are printing another.

We all know what my problem is now. How do I get the lab to print them to look like what I'm seeing on my screen (points to second image).

derxia wrote in post #12371818
Complete opposite to what I'm experiencing. And that's why I'm here. I color manage all my images and even tag them with sRGB upon export. It must be the labs that are not managing colors and therefore, giving me overly saturated (reds, especially) prints.

I'm going to try another experiment to see what I might be doing wrong (or if it's the labs).

Thanks for all the help and suggestions.

derxia,

Most labs print everything in sRGB. Many of the cheap labs are running Fuji equipment. They can only print in sRGB. However, this should not be a problem since sRGB is fine for most purposes. I am not quite sure why you are getting overly saturated reds. The only logical explanation is that you are using two different color spaces. I am not saying you are, but this is exactly what happens when you are going from a wide color space to a narrower one.

If you have a good monitor profile you have to make sure that the OS is using it ( in Windows go to Control Panel and Color Management ), then make sure Photoshop`s Color Management system is properly set up and finally choose the right setting in DPP. ( Use Monitor Profile and choose default working color space ) And shat should be it.

I embed all my images in sRGB specifically for that purpose. And the labs print them to look just like that sRGB image, too.

If the sRGB colors are what I was seeing too, that wouldn't be a problem. Except, it's not what I'm seeing. If you look at the second image "Monitor", that's the look I get on my screen.

In other words, I'm editing all my images expecting one thing, and the labs are printing in sRGB in another.

Am I the only one getting this issue? It wouldn't be a hardware issue, would it?

Does anybody get what I'm saying?

Thanks for all the suggestions, guys.

derxia wrote in post #12370599
I guess the takeaway for me is to avoid labs that don't color manage. Or if I'm going to be using them, to switch to sRGB viewing to kind of see what will be produced.

In the mean while, just keep things calibrated and use monitor profile in DPP.

Thanks all.

OK, have you checked with these print labs as to whether they apply any "correction" to the photos prior to printing them? This is a common process that can lead to bad results for those of us who do our own processing and expect prints to match our color-managed process. You frequently have to explicitely turn it off in their options.

derxia wrote in post #12371981
I embed all my images in sRGB specifically for that purpose.

Sounds fine. I assume that means they are tagged?

derxia wrote in post #12371981
If the sRGB colors are what I was seeing too, that wouldn't be a problem. Except, it's not what I'm seeing. If you look at the second image "Monitor", that's the look I get on my screen.

Problem 1

derxia wrote in post #12371981
And the labs print them to look just like that sRGB image, too.

Problem 2
...............

So you are seeing a properly saturated image but you get an overly saturated sRGB look back from the print shop. I understand.


Questions:

1.Do you use both DPP and Photoshop? Which one do you use when you convert and save? DPP, Photoshop or both?

2.In DPP, in the Edit Module, you can set a different working space than the one you set in Preferences. You are aware of that? Have you double checked to see if the working space in the Edit Module and the one set in Preferences is the same? You will find it under Adjustment -> Work Color Space.

3.When you convert and save from the Edit Module in DPP have you check marked "Embed ICC profile in image" ? You can double check by opening the converted JPEG in the Edit Module and if you look to the bottom left you will see the embedded profile. You can also hit CTRL+I and look at the info.

4.Have you set sRGB as default working space in Photoshop? Open Photoshop, go to Edit -> Color Settings -> Working Spaces and choose sRGB1966. Then Save.

5.Have you set up Windows Color Management properly? This is not required but will make sure Window internally is using the correct profile. Go to Control Panel -> Color Management and in the first tab choose your standard profile. Choose Display1_D65.icm if that is your profile.

Could it be a hardware issue? Hard to say. Try the steps above. If that does not work something is really wrong.

- John

tonylong wrote in post #12372171
OK, have you checked with these print labs as to whether they apply any "correction" to the photos prior to printing them? This is a common process that can lead to bad results for those of us who do our own processing and expect prints to match our color-managed process. You frequently have to explicitely turn it off in their options.

Yes, they turned off. In fact, turning them on brings the colors more inline with what I see on my screen. I still prefer them leaving them off, though.

Both, depending on needs. PS and DPP have same look on all images. LR also looks the same.

That one's set to sRGB. I played around with the various settings but ultimately settled on just leaving everything sRGB for the sake of streamlining.

Yes, I explicitly check on export -- in PS, DPP, and LR.

PS is set to use North American General Purpose 2, which is sRGB.

Windows is making use of my profile. It is the one and only profile for my display under Color Management. It is also the default profile. I made sure of these things too, even though I know Colormunki automatically sets them up after each calibration. I calibrate about twice a month.

Thanks for the suggestions. I'm going to try these latest batch of photos to see what I can find. I appreciate it.

Sounds like you are doing everything right. This is a mystery. Will think about it until tomorrow and get back to you if I have any new ideas.

derxia wrote in post #12371880
You guys are seeing the same thing I am because it's an untagged image that uses my monitor's calibrated profile.

No. Because your screenshots have no embedded profile.
So Safari and FF at default will assume they have my monitor profile, while FF set to fully color manage will assume sRGB. Neither of which is accurate.

derxia wrote in post #12372276
PS and DPP have same look on all images.

Not when you set DPP to use sRGB as monitor profile.

[QUOTE=René Damkot;12372569]

derxia wrote in post #12371880
You guys are seeing the same thing I am because it's an untagged image that uses my monitor's calibrated profile./QUOTE]
No. Because your screenshots have no embedded profile.
So Safari and FF at default will assume they have my monitor profile, while FF set to fully color manage will assume sRGB. Neither of which is accurate.


Not when you set DPP to use sRGB as monitor profile.

You're right, they do mismatch on that instance. But I'm just using my monitor's profile now.

Thanks for the help, but I'm gonna test a batch of photos to see what I can find. I'll keep you guys posted.

So, have you been provided with printer profiles from these labs? For you to "complete the circle" of color management, you will want those profiles installed and then you would open the images in Photoshop and then use the Soft Proof preview. DPP doesn't have this utility, Lightroom doesn't have it, so this is done in Photoshop.

I don't know about all the places you've tried but I believe Costco provides and supports printer/paper/ink profiles.

If you've already done that, well then...but if so, which preview in Photoshop comes closest to the print, the "normal" preview or the Soft Proof preview?

In conclusion, I think it's just the lab and its use of the Frontier systems that's giving the prints a very warm overcast.

This particular image has a nice, almost creamy white look to it on my screen, but the print is rather red, if not warm--especially the background.
http://img.photobucket​.com …rPark_11-05-07_0078-1.jpg

If I'm doing everything I'm supposed to, it's probably not my fault but the lab's.

Thanks for all the help and suggestions.