Lightroom file organisation

I have tried Lightroom's beta and have been quite impressed, but am holding back from buying version 1.0 as I am having trouble getting my head round how Lightroom copes with file "organisation"

The way I work personally involves the creation of a separate folder for each shoot (job). Within this folder, I create further folders named (for instance) RAW, JPG, Cropped, Supplied etc...

How do you guys import your images into Lightroom if essentially you have the same images in different folders?

I realise the release version of Lightroom can "stack" images, but does that only work if they are of the same type, in the same folder? - or can they be stacked nomatter where they reside - and furthermore, is that what stacking is actualy intended for?

TJ

In Elements, the organizer can stack similar photos for you regardless of where the files reside. It does not change the location of the files, just builds its own catalogue. I've been holding off from using the library in Lightroom until I know more about how it works, and instead have been importing files individually. If it works the same way as the organizer in Elements I'll be very pleased.

I'll be interested to see what others have to say.

The beta versions used what was called a 'shoot' to organize the files. You imported images into the 'shoot' in LR, and it didn't matter where the files were actually stored.

In the final released version, they went to a 'folder' organization structure. The images in the folders in Lightroom match the images in a folder on the disk. If you move images from one folder in Lightroom to another, the images on the disk are moved to keep the relationship. So for those who use folders to organize your images, V1.0 of Lightroom works in the same way.

One of my biggest criticisms of LR 1.0 so far is its inability to stack images in different folders.
Other than that its totally compatible with my folder structure.

tumblew33d wrote in post #3027847
In Elements, the organizer can stack similar photos for you regardless of where the files reside. It does not change the location of the files, just builds its own catalogue. I've been holding off from using the library in Lightroom until I know more about how it works, and instead have been importing files individually. If it works the same way as the organizer in Elements I'll be very pleased.

I'll be interested to see what others have to say.

Coming from Elements I'm having a hard time using the Library as it is meant to be, unfortunately. In fact, I've lodged several feature requests using Adobe's online form regard some of the things.

Raw+Jpeg
Elements will import both, wherever they are.
Lightroom only imports Raw if both are in same folder... (Interestingly, Lightroom WILL copy those same jpeg files off of memory card, just will not import them.)It will import jpeg if jpegs are kept in a seperate folder. (Interestingly, Lightroom WILL copy those same jpeg files off of memory card, just will not import them.)

Many users seem to not care, because they think we should shoot RAW all the time.. But for some grab shots, I at times am happy with jpeg, and would rather not mess with the RAW, other times, I get a good grab shot, and want to do more, it would be nice to be able to compare and discard whichever I don't need.

Stacking
Haven't messed too much with it, since I'm waiting for the above problem to be solved, however if it won't stack images in seperate folders, that's pretty lame.

Keyword Tagging
This one bothers me the most. You know those 'tick boxes' next to all the keywords in Elements that let you quickly view photos with what ever you have check-marked? THEY AREN'T THERE in Lightroom! You have a list of keywords you can see, but you have to manually type in to search fields if you want to narrow your search based on keywords.

Strange to me that they took so many good features pretty much straight from Elements, but just left them out there hanging...

There are other thing that bother me, but I can't remember them all right now.
Currently I'm still using Elements for my Keyword tagging, organizing of images... and hopefully if all this gets sorted out in an update, I can just import my catalog to Lightroom then.

As far as just being a reference to the image, like in Elements, that is correct.

Don't let any of this put you off of buying Lightroom, though... I think it is great in other regards, and RAW processing is quite powerful. They will be addressing many issues in future updates, but if you wait till then you may pay full-price... and that would have put it out of my price range.

I think it more a case where if they shoot RAW+JPEG, and want to process the image, the tendency is to choose to process the RAW rather than the JPEG for all the benefits it allows.

Personally, I shoot both RAW, JPEG, and RAW+JPEG as appropriate, and love the way it works.

-If I shoot JPEG, LR will import and use the JPEG.

-If I shoot RAW, LR will import and use the RAW.

-If I shoot RAW+JPEG, LR will copy both so I have them, but if I want to edit or process the image will use the RAW for processing.

Thats a perfect scenario for me. If I do shoot both RAW+JPEG, and need to process the image, I wouldn't choose to process the JPEG over the RAW anyway. I don't see the advantage. So LR does exactly what I would want.

Typically when I shoot RAW+JPEG, the JPEGS are only so I can give the client a set of 'proofs' from the shoot. Otherwise I choose to RAW or JPEG based on the subject matter.

But I do see your point that if the images are there, it should import them, or at least leave the option up to the photographer. I bet we will see it changed in the next release, or at least I hope so.

sfaust wrote in post #3027945
In the final released version, they went to a 'folder' organization structure. The images in the folders in Lightroom match the images in a folder on the disk. If you move images from one folder in Lightroom to another, the images on the disk are moved to keep the relationship. So for those who use folders to organize your images, V1.0 of Lightroom works in the same way.

Does that mean that files are still "imported" into Lightroom's database? (are they still using SQL?) - so if I were to move a file (using Windows Explorer) from one folder to another, Lightroom wouldn't know anything about it? - or does it now behave like Bridge and simply replicate the folder structure it finds on the drive?

The more I think about this the more confused I'm getting.

With my 1D for instance, I tend to shoot RAW onto a CF card, and duplicate that with JPG onto an SD card as "backup". Maybe I shouldn't, but I still tend to save BOTH files to my hard drive as then I can use some auto-creation software to generate some web images, from the jpegs, for uploading to a web server. This allows very quick turn-round of images where a client wants on-line image approval and selection.

Do I still need to do it this way?... or is there an easier way using Lightroom?

Another question (sorry!) - how does Lr now "Import" files. In the beta it didn't appear very flexible when/if ingesting from a memory card - has that been improved.

I really appreciate your comments guys - thank you.

TJ

On the subject of "Searching" on keywords etc....

Using Adobe Bridge, Ctrl + F (in Windows) brings up a really flexible search window, allowing multiple criteria to be entered.

Has Lightroom got anything similar for locating images?

Teejay,

The import is a WHOLE lot better than the Beta. The search window exists, but its not as user-friendly in selecting Tags as Elements. You can also search by metadata (although not all EXIF)

My comments are in bold:

TeeJay wrote in post #3028461
Does that mean that files are still "imported" into Lightroom's database? (are they still using SQL?) - so if I were to move a file (using Windows Explorer) from one folder to another, Lightroom wouldn't know anything about it? - or does it now behave like Bridge and simply replicate the folder structure it finds on the drive?

When you move images in Explorer and then open Lightroom the folder will appear red rather than white. You can then direct Lightroom to where the file is now located.

The more I think about this the more confused I'm getting.

With my 1D for instance, I tend to shoot RAW onto a CF card, and duplicate that with JPG onto an SD card as "backup". Maybe I shouldn't, but I still tend to save BOTH files to my hard drive as then I can use some auto-creation software to generate some web images, from the jpegs, for uploading to a web server. This allows very quick turn-round of images where a client wants on-line image approval and selection.

Do I still need to do it this way?... or is there an easier way using Lightroom?

This seems to be a personal preference. I don't need the quick turnaround for web shots so I process my RAW files and then export them to another folder for web images. During the export process I resize to 1200 pixels max, convert to sRGB, 8-bit, and rename the files to include a _web suffix. Then Lightroom does its thing.

Another question (sorry!) - how does Lr now "Import" files. In the beta it didn't appear very flexible when/if ingesting from a memory card - has that been improved.

I have Lightroom setup to automatically launch the Import window when I insert a crad into my reader. From here you can Move or Copy images to one folder or into folders by dates or folders by how the camera has them (125Canon for example), convert to DNG, rename, add keywords, copyright info, use presets for quick and easy batch processing, etc.

I really appreciate your comments guys - thank you.

TJ

TeeJay wrote in post #3028487
On the subject of "Searching" on keywords etc....

Using Adobe Bridge, Ctrl + F (in Windows) brings up a really flexible search window, allowing multiple criteria to be entered.

Has Lightroom got anything similar for locating images?

Yes and no. You can serch for items by using the Find panel in the Library module but you have to know the exact names of your keywords. We are hoping that Adobe will change the structure of the Keyword panel to allow users to click mutiple keywords and perform "and" or "or" operations as they currently only perform "or" operations so any and all files that contain one of the selected keywords will be found.

EOSAddict wrote in post #3028553
Teejay,

The import is a WHOLE lot better than the Beta. The search window exists, but its not as user-friendly in selecting Tags as Elements. You can also search by metadata (although not all EXIF)

Thank you.

MIKE: (as your response was INSIDE my "quote", I can't quote your quote, if you see what I mean ) Quote from Mike: as they currently only perform "or" operations so any and all files that contain one of the selected keywords will be found.

That seems like a really basic error in coding. Any search facility (even ones that I code!) always have both AND and OR operators. Is there no way round it? I would have thought that would make searching a whole lot more tedious!

TJ

TeeJay wrote in post #3028635
Thank you.

MIKE: (as your response was INSIDE my "quote", I can't quote your quote, if you see what I mean ) Quote from Mike: as they currently only perform "or" operations so any and all files that contain one of the selected keywords will be found.

That seems like a really basic error in coding. Any search facility (even ones that I code!) always have both AND and OR operators. Is there no way round it? I would have thought that would make searching a whole lot more tedious!

TJ

Sorry about the inability to quote. Yes there is a way around that problem. You can use the Find panel to locate photos and you have the option of "and" or "or" operators. We just want that built in to the keyword panel. It would be much easier to click on several keywords and click "and" or "or" to change the search criteria. That way there is no errors if you type Canon or Cannon.

In2Photos wrote in post #3028657
Sorry about the inability to quote. Yes there is a way around that problem. You can use the Find panel to locate photos and you have the option of "and" or "or" operators. We just want that built in to the keyword panel. It would be much easier to click on several keywords and click "and" or "or" to change the search criteria. That way there is no errors if you type Canon or Cannon.

Ah, thanks for clearing that up Mike, I see what you mean. I would have thought though that it could make the "keywords" panel a little cumbersome if there had to be and "AND + OR" buttons alongside each word (?)

.... and then ofcourse there is the issue of "Grouping" the "AND's" and the "OR's" - depending on where you put the "OR" returns a whole different data set, so my comment (above) regarding placement of radio buttons wouldn't work.

I guess the only way round it would be a pop-up in which to build the "search string", not dissimilar to the "Find" window as it is now!!

TJ

Hi Mike,

Can you better explain what you are trying to do?
I have been importing my image library into Lightroom over the last 2 weeks and all my folder and subfolder orgaization is working great, whether I imported the subfolders or created them within Lightroom as I was working.

Is it that you only want one copy of the image and then virtual copies in other places? If that is the case I discovered that the Master and Virtual copy must be in the same folder.

If you are trying to have a fast way to locate the many versions scattered about in different folders then you can use keywords at metatags to help you find and sort those images.

TMR Design wrote in post #3028738
Hi Mike,
Can you better explain what you are trying to do?

Robert, Mike isn't trying to do anything, he was simply replying to my #1 post, where I was asking how Lightroom copes with the same images, but with different types (RAW. JPG etc) in separate folders. (I think!)

TJ

[Edit: Robert/Mike - just re-read my post and I believe my reply sounded rather blunt. Didn't mean it to sound that way - sorry! ]