On Manual Settings

Most of the time I have been shooting on P setting.
Equipment - Canon 5D, ST-E2 as master, 580EX, 550EX, 2 X 430EX as slaves.

At P program setting, everything can be controlled by the master except for one thing - the APERTURE. Somehow the aperture is set to the widest found on the lens used. This poses a problem in depth of field. For table top where depth of field is critical to maintain sharpness of subject all round.

But then using this sort of setting controlled by the master and the other flash units on slave - automatically the manual setting cannot be turned on.

Need some help to overcome this and use manual settings instead!

Which manual setting are we talking about? The camera or the Speedlites?

Speedlites on manual so as to enable the camera be set to a smaller aperture for more depth of field.

To set the slave flash to manual mode, press and hold the "Mode" botton for about 2 seconds till the letter "M' is flashing, but you have to set the camera to manual mode also to get the proper exposure.

So Peter, why can't you set the camera to manual mode and get the aperture you like, and let the Canon wireless flashes provide the "correct" amount of flash automatically?

The 550 & 580's are not a problem in setting the manual mode but with the 430 I think it would be out of the question as these options are not available.

For the 430 options available are limited without a mode option or other dials other than the basics. Guess for these 430's will have to rely on what it can offer and manupulate the 550 & 580's.

AFAIK the 430 EX does offer a manual setting.
I agree with lotto: Set the camera on manual.

Right you are. I just put the 430 on H as slave and shot on a tripod with the desired aperture controlled by the st-e2 at room light condition with a flourescent tube light source. It was OK. Will expand on this.

Thanks everybody!

Setting the camera on manual and the setting the flashes on manual do two completely different things. With the flash on manual, it puts out a given amount of light regardless of what the camera does with exposure. If the camera is set on P, and the flash set on manual, the camera will measure the ambient light and provide the exposure for that and ignore what the flash is doing. In all likelihood, that will include a wide open aperture or close to it unless the subject is pretty bright without the flash. The reason the camera ignores the flash when flash is set to manual is that the flash does not prefire its exposure burst, so the camera has nothing to base its exposure on except ambient light. If the camera is on manual, you set the aperture and shutter speed you want and the camera does what you tell it to do.

With an EX flash set on automatic, the camera will measure the light, even if it is set on manual, and tell the flash to quit putting out light when it has put out enough. Most of the time, the camera is right, but sometimes it can't figure it out. In those cases, use flash exposure compensation or set the flash on manual and figure out what exposure to give it. You can adjust the flash output to do this or adjust the camera aperture, but keep the camera on manual or you will have the problem you are having.

So, to sum it up, you have been doing exactly the opposite of what you should be doing.

With the 580ex there is no problem with manual setting as there is a distance guide table on the flash body when the master/slave setting is set to off i.e. the flash mounted on the camera body.

Now all this guide setting on the flash body dissapears once the setting changes to Master or Slave mode. The flash is in automatic setting controlled by the st-e2. This means the flash will fire in auto mode and pre determines the amount of light emitted onto a set subject.

So maybe I will have to use a meter attached to the flash to determine the exposure when set on manual on the camera body. (Reason once it is set to P the aperture is set to the widest aperture found on the lens. Also whenever it is set to P or auto on the camera the setting is always at the widest aperture and the speed 1/60 unless it is set at 1/200 manually). This is because as said, the flash determines the amount of light to emit and cuts off automatically any excess.

My point is that I would like to use a smaller aperture as I want more depth of field. Instead of bracketing my shots every time to experiment, there must be a way to determine the exposure/speed setting.

Peter Ho wrote in post #3050220
With the 580ex there is no problem with manual setting as there is a distance guide table on the flash body when the master/slave setting is set to off i.e. the flash mounted on the camera body.

Now all this guide setting on the flash body dissapears once the setting changes to Master or Slave mode. The flash is in automatic setting controlled by the st-e2. This means the flash will fire in auto mode and pre determines the amount of light emitted onto a set subject.

So maybe I will have to use a meter attached to the flash to determine the exposure when set on manual on the camera body. (Reason once it is set to P the aperture is set to the widest aperture found on the lens. Also whenever it is set to P or auto on the camera the setting is always at the widest aperture and the speed 1/60 unless it is set at 1/200 manually). This is because as said, the flash determines the amount of light to emit and cuts off automatically any excess.

My point is that I would like to use a smaller aperture as I want more depth of field. Instead of bracketing my shots every time to experiment, there must be a way to determine the exposure/speed setting.

Don't touch your flash settings! Leave them the way you had them set.

To set the aperture you want, just set the CAMERA to Manual mode, not the flashes. WIth the camera in manual mode, you can choose whatever aperture you want to use for the shots.

Peter Ho wrote in post #3050220
With the 580ex there is no problem with manual setting as there is a distance guide table on the flash body when the master/slave setting is set to off i.e. the flash mounted on the camera body.

Now all this guide setting on the flash body dissapears once the setting changes to Master or Slave mode. The flash is in automatic setting controlled by the st-e2. This means the flash will fire in auto mode and pre determines the amount of light emitted onto a set subject.

So maybe I will have to use a meter attached to the flash to determine the exposure when set on manual on the camera body. (Reason once it is set to P the aperture is set to the widest aperture found on the lens. Also whenever it is set to P or auto on the camera the setting is always at the widest aperture and the speed 1/60 unless it is set at 1/200 manually). This is because as said, the flash determines the amount of light to emit and cuts off automatically any excess.

My point is that I would like to use a smaller aperture as I want more depth of field. Instead of bracketing my shots every time to experiment, there must be a way to determine the exposure/speed setting.

I'm sorry, I over-explained. It is really very simple.

Leave flashes on Auto.

Set camera to Manual.

Pick aperture and shutter speed on camera.

Take picture.

Thanks - I think I got the idea. Will set the camera on manual instead.