Canon Tilt Shift Lens - 24L, 45, or 90

Hi Gene,

gasrocks wrote in post #3072417
I voted for the 90, which I own, and use for portraits and macro. One of the sharpest lenses Canon has ever made. I thought about the 24 and 45 but some reviews about their IQ trouble me. I just ordered my next TS lens the Canon 35/2.8 TS. Has a reputation as the sharpest 35mm (focal length) TS lens ever made. Yes, I am having it custom altered to an EF mount.

Please do tell us TS afficionados more about this when it is done, including samples, of course!

TIA, kind regards, Wim

Ronald S. Jr. wrote in post #3074947
On FF, I think I'd prefer the 45. Kind of an "all around" lens. Architecture, close-up, portraits, landscapes, etc. The L (24mm) just gets the worst reviews of the three. I'd be the last of the bunch that I'd pick up.

Yeah, but tests don't tell you everything, especially if people don't really know what they are testing, in the case of the TS-E 24. My opinion of course.

Once you've used one of these lenses, and gotten the hang of it, you'll want all three of the TS Trio.

Kind regards, Wim

jr_senator wrote in post #3074510
Yeah, while I don't have a T/S lens myself, my brother has one with his Nikon system (28mm that shifts only). I have used it several times, all his SLRs are film. I have shot trees and buildings with his camera/lens and I really don't think I would like a lens any longer of a focal length with a perspective control, regardless of 1.6, 1.3 or FF format.

I don't agree with you. They do more than just perspective control, which is shift. They do tilt too, and that means you can put the plane of focus exactly where you want it. Ask anybody who uses a technical camera.

An overlooked advantage of the shift feature, BTW, is that you can partially focus around a corner as it were, which means you can avoid the camera being reflected in mirror like surfaces, like shiny pieces of jewelry. And with the tilt feature you can then proceed to have the part of the jewelry you want to be sharp completely in focus. Great stuff.

These lenses are extremely addictive, once you get the hang of using them. And they can still be used as if they are normal lenses, too.

Kind regards, Wim

Marsellus_Wallace wrote in post #3076627
Haha I did not take this seriously, but I've seen people buy the 24 version because canon calls it L, and those people immediately think this is the one to go for. It's sad, but it actually happened. This lens is has the L designation because prior to this lens, people might have considered a useable tlit-shift 24mm retrofocus (SLR-) lens would be impossible to make.

Thanks.

Actually, you have my trust, if that is of any consolation, as I will explain below .

I don't have the time to go very deep into it, but by design, wide-angle lenses show quite some vignetting at large apertures. This can be seen clearly on the 24/1.4 and 16-35 MkI on full-frame. Of course when you shift such a lens, vignetting becomes hellacious soon. This is nearly impossible to fix.
Read this page: http://www.vanwalree.c​om/optics/vignetting.h​tml and have a look especially at fig. 2. This pic says a lot, the page (almost) tells you everything else.

For the same reasons, most real telephoto's (>100mm), even the cheaper ones, have very little vignetting, and a very even sharpness across the frame - wide open, too. Like Marsellus said: alas, this is a hard moth......ing fact of life.

Because WA-lenses for SLRs have a very high level of refraction, they easily lack sharpness in the corners/along the borders of the frame. The same as with vignetting, this becomes annoying quickly when you shift the lens.

The 24 TS-E does very well in both aspects, especially stopped down. It's almost a miracle that it's useable full frame, shifted, wide-open.

Yes. A lot of people don't really seem to realize what kind of lens this is. It has 11 mm of shift either way, and 8 degrees of tilt (enough to get the plane of focus from parallel to the sensor to perpendicular to the sensor).

This lens has an image circle diameter of 58.6 mm. This equates to a 17 - 18 mm AoV equivalent, rectilinear UWA, for something that is approximately a MF lens!
This is, in any photographic language, a true masterpiece, especially considering the resolution it manages to attain, whatever any tests say. You can't compare this to a standard 36 mm image circle lens for FF, or even less for APS-C.

And there is no way, that you can recreate with PS, etc., what you can capture in a single shot with this lens, to begin with, and if you do try, to maintain a similar quality of the picture as one created by this lens. It is a truly incredible piece of optics.

Well, it does add to the demands on optical quality at the edges of the image produced.

Kind regards, Wim

wimg wrote in post #3076768
Actually, you have my trust, if that is of any consolation, as I will explain below .

Haha! I don't mind. Watch out whom you trust. I can be dangerous, you know

I can only second your entire post. It's a remarkable, incredible, specialty optic. It is way better than I thought possible at 24 mm.

But, OP, of course don't expect to buy a perfect 24 mm prime. This lens is amazing for what it is - it's even amazing it exists and works at all, but people who don't want to tilt and/or shift are better off in every way with the 24/1.4, maybe even the 24/2.8.

Word.

And we forgot to mention that you can even have your tilting direction swapped by Canon, for free!

StealthLude wrote in post #3070928
Im trying to decide on a tilt shift lens. Ive been facinated with these lens for quite some time but never really got a chance to put one to the test.

Ive seen samples of what they can do, and its pretty amazing.

From what I read, the 90mm TS has the best optics, even on the 24L...

It only has seemingly the best optics. It is a Gaussian design, and for its class it has very good optics. Actually, for a lens that really is a MF lens, it has extremely good optics. OTOH, this is the similar to saying that a 50 mm FF class lens has good optics. This lens is excellent, yes, even for an MF design, but that may be expected.

The 45 mm is equivalent to a 33 mm MF lens, with a design similar to a 28 mm F/1.8, and the 24 mm to a 17.8 mm MF lens, with a design similar to a 20 mm F/2.8. This is really why they are masterpieces. Large apertures for MF type lenses, and optics to match, despite slightly lower resolution figures in tests on APS-C and/or FF cameras. At those focal lengths, for MF size image circles, that is to be expected.

And you really need to take into account that these lenses are special lenses. You can do things with these lenses no normal lenses can do, and that is never taken into account by general lens tests. You'll find that test geared specifically to TS lenses are much more favourable.

Well, I started with the 90 mm, for product shots, portraits, macro, and slightly compressed landscapes, plus the tilt facility.

Next I got the 24 mm, which is in a way just an extreme version of the 90 mm, and can be used for architecture as well as product shots, flower shots, landscapes, and creative DoF shots.

And just today I got the 45 mm, because I had to get it, after using the other two. They just go very nicely together, more or less doubling focal length each time you go from the one lens to the next.

BTW, I didn't vote, because I wouldn't just want to be limited in choice of only one of them .

StealthLude wrote in post #3070935
I voted for the 90mm Lens, because I THINK it might be the best for what I want to do. I really screwed myself picking a 90mm for landscape and architecture (I think) since its more of a tele focal length. But I really wanted something for product, portrait, and studio use.

Would you have picked something different? Would the 45mm be the most versatile pick?

The 90 mm both on FF (short tele) and on APS-C (medium tele) is great for use for product, portrait and studio photography. It is also great for short tele landscape work, and doubles with an extension tube as an excellent macro lens. It's image field is very flat, and it focuses quite close already. And the tilt facility gives it quite an edge on a traditional macro lens, for creative DoF.

On APS-C the 45 is probably the most versatile one, but even there, personally I would go for the 90 mm one, even if I had to start from scratch. It is the easiest one to work with, IMO, because it translates most easily to a normal type of lens.

Ah. Wait till you have used one, and have gotten the hang of it. They're the TS Triumvirate. It's similar to the Holy Trinity. You get one, and you end up wanting all three.

StealthLude wrote in post #3071021
In addition to my argument...

I understand the DOF part of the tilt shift lens, and how it can be super useful for product or creative photography.

But for stuff like landscape or architecture shots, cant perspective distortion be corrected inside Photoshop using free transform instead? This is one reason I tent to stay away from the TS-24...

Yes, to a degree. However, perspective correction in PS, or any other graphical application, makes IQ suffer. It is ok for small corrections, but it gets progressively worse with larger corrections. And this is where one of the strenghts of these lenses lie, including the 24 mm. An image corrected with shift on a 24 mm has a larger IQ than an image taken with a similar FL and corrected in PS, unless maybe the correction is relatively small.

When it comes to tilt, this is virtually impossible to (re)create with PS. You would need a very small aperture to get the DoF required, and then do a large investment in time to get a similar effect. However, that effect can not be copied completely, because a tilted plane created in 3D is impossible to recreate within a 2D image.

And the tilt of the 24 is really awesome, and the effects you can create with it.

For example, I shot a demo pic, where the grass is sharp from close by to the far end of the pic, and the flower heads sticking out of the grass, just a few centimetres higher, aren't. Try that with PS.

BTW, the bokeh of these lenses, including the 24 mm, is awesome. You have to see it to believe it.

I'll try to upload a few pics this weekend, after I have tested the 45 as well, so you can see pics with all three.

Kind regards, Wim

Marsellus_Wallace wrote in post #3077003
Haha! I don't mind. Watch out whom you trust. I can be dangerous, you know

I can only second your entire post. It's a remarkable, incredible, specialty optic. It is way better than I thought possible at 24 mm.

But, OP, of course don't expect to buy a perfect 24 mm prime. This lens is amazing for what it is - it's even amazing it exists and works at all, but people who don't want to tilt and/or shift are better off in every way with the 24/1.4, maybe even the 24/2.8.

Word.

And we forgot to mention that you can even have your tilting direction swapped by Canon, for free!

You don't need Canon to do that, it is quite easy to do by yourself . You just need a very good Philips #0 screw driver. Here is a how-to article from Digital Outback; just scroll down past the first article on TS:
http://www.outbackphot​o.com/workflow/wf_42/e​ssay.html

Kind regards, Wim

StealthLude wrote in post #3075005
I have no idea why the TS 24L is so popular, I think its the red ring that makes people want it over the others.

I think it might actually have something to do with the focal length: Some people choose a lens based on that aspect.

I feel that where these lenses are concerned, wider is better. The 90mm is probably better for product photography though. and the 45 is not too far off a 'standard view' - but I'd plan for the 24 first.

wimg wrote in post #3077070
Actually, for a lens that really is a MF lens, it has extremely good optics.

Medium format and other gaussian lenses (Leica M series e.g.) are optically mostly better and less complicated than your typical SLR retrofocus designs.

This depends on your medium (or large) format format (not a typo).The MF field of view is wider at the same focal length compared to 35mm format.

Indeed, the whole point of TS lenses is not purely their optical quality, but the unique things you can do with them.

BTW, I didn't vote, because I wouldn't just want to be limited in choice of only one of them .

I didn't vote either, because there's no point comparing 24, 45 and 90mm lenses to see which one is 'best'. For each focal length, there's only one TS option on the planet. If the OP doesn't like it, there's gonna be no tiltin' 'n' shiftin'.

I never tried this (dont have a 90 TS-E) but this seems an incredible macro tool indeed! I will try this soon. Thanks for mentioning!

Yes, especially for the 24mm I'd say, and you will have to crop significantly in PS to get rid of the black areas, too. Our shifting friends leave nothing black.

Yep, you just can't do this. Maybe you get somewhere with a lot of fiddling, or with a all-sharp image and blur masks, but it will never look like the real thing, and it's a real pain.

I'm looking forward to them!

Thanks for the tutorial link, wim. I already figured this out, but only after I had mine swapped for free at my canon dealer where I bought it, while I waited.

8) , totally radical! I'll surely try this!

I'll pick the 90mm because I would mostly use the tilt for closeup work.

The 24mm would be good on a full frame (still using APS-C) but I suspect I would not use it that much in real life.

Be a long time before I can get one of these however.

Lester Wareham wrote in post #3084780
I'll pick the 90mm because I would mostly use the tilt for closeup work.

The 24mm would be good on a full frame (still using APS-C) but I suspect I would not use it that much in real life.

Ah! But that's where you are mistaken, Lester. The 24 mm is incredible for creative close-up work (on a crop sensor camera). The 90 is great for (very) small items, but if you want to get the most out of slightly larger objects, the 24 is hard to beat.

Tilt in the vertical direction, from left bottom to right top in the image, f.e., that is what it is about. And of course, somehow, all of the TS-Es have bokeh to kill for, even the 24...

That is a real pity, especially considering the amount of work you have done in this specific direction on your site.

Kind regards, Wim