Mourning Dove (a comparison of 800 vs 400)

Here is another sample from yesterday's trip to the Berkeley Aquatic Park.
I don't know if anyone finds this stuff interesting, but I know I do. I took
a photo taken with the 20D and Sigma 800 f5.6 and compared it to one
taken with the 350D and 400 f5.6L. These were take of the same bird
one after the other. Both taken at ISO 400, f8, -.33 EV, 1/1600 second.

1 Full image with the 400L

interesting... I would have thought there would be more detail in the 800 crop

In my eyes there seems to be not much between them in IQ but its great to see the 400 vs 800 focal difference, it gives a good idea of distance and how it can help in those I NEED REACH situations,

Thanks for taking the time to post this information.

I notice in the shot data for the 8 and 4 that the metering is multi-segment & Partial, was this a user changed setting or was it due to the swop of lens and the lens requirement ?

Thanks winkie and DazzyD. I didn't do any post processing, so the images may have
differences if processed. The difference in meter was because I used two different
camera while still trying to capture the same image. The actual time difference was
seconds, not minutes (the clocks are apparently different between the cameras) so
I could capture the same position and lighting.

The crops don't look that much different, but the 400 looks like IQ is somewhat better. Somewhat noiseier but sharper in the branch parts. On the other hand, you probably could have cropped the 800 twice as much.

A up-res to a 400 pic that's sharp could equal a shot at higher mm that is not as sharp.

knowing you jorj i will assume all other factors such as wind, auto release and i'm pretty sure there was no significant seismic activity at the time, were taken into account. to me the difference in the entire glass as opposed to the sweet spot is obvious.

would it make a difference in everyday life? not so sure, though to some it would be a fly in the ointment.

would the additional range be worth the tradeoff ? to me the jury is still out on that one. owning both is probaly not a bad idea.

how about a comparison between the 500 and the 800? that would help me make a more informed decision.

and thanx jorj. this is valuable stuff.

Mitch, Allen, and Terry,

Thanks for your comments.

Mitch, The branch detail is a example of DOF differences of 400mm and 800mm. The
area of focus is the head of the bird.

Allen, I didn't Up res either photo. I just cropped the same image area from each
photo and down sized them to 800x533. The cropped image from the 800mm had
twice the resolution then the 400mm image before the resize. So for web presentation
the detail level from the 400mm from this sample was good enough. For a large print
this may not be the case.

Terry, Which lens would be needed would depend on the desired output medium. If
you were just putting out 800x533 images for the web, then the 400 would be good
enough.
As for taking the 500 and 800 out at the same time, that would be great, but I'd need
an extra person to help carry the equipment. I can handle the 800 (or 500) and 400
at the same time, but the 500 and 800 together would be very difficult.

I'd rather see two different lenses and the same camera.
Karen

Karen, That would isolate the test more, as long as it can be done while the
lighting and subject stayed constant. With birds, that's not always easy to
arrange. In this case, the bird flew off shortly after I took the shots.

By the way, here is a shot of me (taken by my friend Adam) while I'm carrying the
20D/800 and 350D/400L. Just to show you the relative size, and possible logistical
problems in doing a lens comparison in the field....

The 400 looks like a spotting scope for the 800.

I can't believe that's not on a gibal head! And I didn't think you up resed this photo, I was saying a good sharp photo from the 400mm could be upresed to match a much larger lens if the larger lens produced a image that had less detail.

Mitch, Yep, the 800 is a big lens.

Allen, Yes, no gibal head. I'm currently using a Bogen 3055 head which I plan to
upgrade at some point in the near future. And you're right about a good clear image
from a 400L can be up resed to look as good or better then a crappy image from a
longer lens. So out of curiousity, I up resed both of the crops (before resizing) to
10x8 print size (3200 x 2400) then took a 100% crop from each. I used PS Elements 3
and used the bicubic resize option on both. No other corrections, noise reduction
or sharpening.

Here's the one from the 350D and 400L:

jorj7 wrote in post #3115602
Mitch, Yep, the 800 is a big lens.

Allen, Yes, no gibal head. I'm currently using a Bogen 3055 head which I plan to
upgrade at some point in the near future. And you're right about a good clear image
from a 400L can be up resed to look as good or better then a crappy image from a
longer lens. So out of curiousity, I up resed both of the crops (before resizing) to
10x8 print size (3200 x 2400) then took a 100% crop from each. I used PS Elements 3
and used the bicubic resize option on both. No other corrections, noise reduction
or sharpening.

Here's the one from the 350D and 400L:

| Byte size: ZERO | Content warning: NOT AN IMAGE

And here's the one from the 20D and 800:

| Byte size: ZERO | Content warning: NOT AN IMAGE

There's a big difference at this resolution (as I figured).

Well you stacked the deck against the 400 by using the 350 d with worse noise performance and IQ and upped the smaller image from the 400 much more by upping both images. I think it would be closer under a fairer test but a really sharp shot from the 800mm will beat it for sure.

EDIT: I just did a test of 400mm vs 600mm + 1.4TC (840mm) on the 1d MK II N. I took a equal crop area from both images and upped the 400mm image to match the 840mm image. Taken on tripod both at f/5.6 at low shutter speeds but I used MLU and timer. Still the 400mm looks a little oof but you can get the general idea. These are 100% crops

840mm
http://www.allensvisio​ns.com/pics/VIS_7970w.​jpg

400mm
http://www.allensvisio​ns.com/pics/VIS_7969w.​jpg


840mm after Noise Ninja on background
http://www.allensvisio​ns.com/pics/VIS_7970nr​.jpg

400mm after Noise Ninja on background
http://www.allensvisio​ns.com/pics/VIS_7969nr​.jpg