Just back home...Apple Computers VS PC

This one is $1099, about the same price as the $1074 mini above

Dell Dimension E520
Date & Time: April 28,2007 5:05 PM CST

SYSTEM COMPONENTS
Dell Dimension E520 Qty 1
Intel ® Core™2 Duo Processor E6400 (2.13GHz, 1066 FSB), Genuine Windows Vista™ Home Premium Unit Price $1,249.00
Dell Home Customers: Save $150 instant off on this Dell Dimension E520!
Limited Time Offer! View Details
- $150.00

Catalog Number: 29 DDCWAA4
Module Description Show Details
Dimension E520 Intel ® Core™2 Duo Processor E6400 (2.13GHz, 1066 FSB)
Operating System Genuine Windows Vista™ Home Premium
Memory 2GB Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 667MHz- 2DIMMs
Keyboard Dell USB Keyboard and Dell 2-button Scroll Mouse
Monitor No Monitor
Video Cards 256MB ATI Radeon X1300 Pro
Hard Drives 250GB Serial ATA Hard Drive (7200RPM) w/DataBurst Cache™
Floppy Drive and Media Reader No Floppy Drive Included
Mouse Mouse included in Wireless, Laser or Bluetooth Package
Network Interface Integrated 10/100 Ethernet
Modem 56K PCI Data Fax Modem
Adobe Software Adobe® Acrobat® Reader 7.0
CD or DVD Drive Dual Drives: 16x DVD-ROM Drive + 16x DVD+/-RW
Sound Cards Sound Blaster® X-Fi™ XtremeMusic (D) Sound Card
Speakers No speakers (Speakers are required to hear audio from your system)
Bundle Microsoft Works 8. DOES NOT INCLUDE MS WORD
Security Software No security subscription (McAfee 30-day trial)
Warranty and Service 1Yr Ltd Warranty and At-Home Service
Internet Access Service 6 Months of America Online Membership Included
Miscellaneous Award Winning Service and Support
Dell Digital Entertainment Trial pack- Basic and trial products from Corel and Yahoo
Labels Windows Vista™ Premium

TOTAL:$1,099.00

OK, now we have something. The Mini is near the end of its cycle - almost a year now. I don't think these two machines are comparable. A desktop tower vs. a Mini? The Mini is essentially a notebook computer packaged in a 6" x 6" x 2" box that is virtually silent. As such, its components are more expensive. Not really a fair comparison, but since you went to the trouble of getting the list I have a few questions.

Are you comparing Vista Home Premium to Tiger? Tiger has many features in it (2 years old) that Premium does not (e.g., network access protection, volume encryption, etc.).

Does this Dell have firewire, 802.11g wireless, Bluetooth or gigabit ethernet? Does it have digital optical input and output? No built-in speaker, if I read the specs you provided correctly. No virus protection on a PC - do you think that's wise? I understand Premium comes with a movie and DVD package similar to iMovie and iDVD, but does it also include equivalents of Garage Band, iCal, iPhoto, iSync (for managing cell phones, etc.) and Address Book, all of which are integrated with one another? How about software like Front Row, a remote and the ability to connect it to any TV that has VGA, DVI, S-vid or composite connections as well as audio passthrough (e.g., Dolby Digital)?

Perhaps a more fair comparison might be iMacs or Mac Pros.

Village_Idiot wrote in post #3120211
Better? It even comes with a keyboard and mouse, which I believe the mini does not.

http://ecomm.dell.com …cs=19&c=us&&det​ails=false

Dell Dimension E520
Date & Time: April 28,2007 4:50 PM CST
SYSTEM COMPONENTS
Dell Dimension E520 Qty 1
Intel® Core™2 Duo Processor E4300 (1.8GHz, 800 FSB),
Genuine Windows Vista™ Home PremiumUnit Price $749.00
Dell Home Customers: Save $150 instant off on this Dell Dimension E520! Limited Time Offer! - $150.00
Dimension E520Intel® Core™2 Duo Processor E4300 (1.8GHz, 800 FSB)
Operating SystemGenuine Windows Vista™ Home Premium
Memory1GB Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 667MHz- 2 DIMMs
Keyboard Dell USB Keyboard and Dell 2-button Scroll Mouse
Monitor No Monitor
Video Cards Intel® Graphics Media Accelerator X3000
Hard Drives 160GB Serial ATA Hard Drive (7200RPM) w/DataBurst Cache™
Floppy Drive and Media Reader No Floppy Drive Included
Mouse Mouse included in Wireless, Laser or Bluetooth Package
Network Interface Integrated 10/100 Ethernet
Modem 56K PCI Data Fax Modem
Adobe Software Adobe® Acrobat® Reader 7.0
CD or DVD Drive 16x DVD+/-RW Drive
Sound Cards Integrated 7.1 Channel Audio
Speakers No speakers (Speakers are required to hear audio from your system)
Bundle Microsoft Works 8. DOES NOT INCLUDE MS WORD
Security Software No security subscription (McAfee 30-day trial)
Warranty and Service 1Yr Ltd Warranty and At-Home Service
Internet Access Service 6 Months of America Online Membership Included
Miscellaneous Award Winning Service and Support
Dell Digital Entertainment Trial pack- Basic and trial products from Corel and Yahoo
Labels Windows Vista™ Premium

I'm sure there will be objections but:
From System Shootouts

$580 Educational Shootout
$680 Educational SFF Shootout

Make sure you READ the faq.
System Shootouts FAQ

Tony-S wrote in post #3120328
OK, now we have something. The Mini is near the end of its cycle - almost a year now. I don't think these two machines are comparable. A desktop tower vs. a Mini? The Mini is essentially a notebook computer packaged in a 6" x 6" x 2" box that is virtually silent. As such, its components are more expensive. Not really a fair comparison, but since you went to the trouble of getting the list I have a few questions.

Are you comparing Vista Home Premium to Tiger? Tiger has many features in it (2 years old) that Premium does not (e.g., network access protection, volume encryption, etc.).

Does this Dell have firewire, 802.11g wireless, Bluetooth or gigabit ethernet? Does it have digital optical input and output? No built-in speaker, if I read the specs you provided correctly. No virus protection on a PC - do you think that's wise? I understand Premium comes with a movie and DVD package similar to iMovie and iDVD, but does it also include equivalents of Garage Band, iCal, iPhoto, iSync (for managing cell phones, etc.) and Address Book, all of which are integrated with one another? How about software like Front Row, a remote and the ability to connect it to any TV that has VGA, DVI, S-vid or composite connections as well as audio passthrough (e.g., Dolby Digital)?

Perhaps a more fair comparison might be iMacs or Mac Pros.

That's the thing though, when/if mac comes out with a new mini or another starter computer, they may be more comparable, but for now there is not one. It's the fact that as soon as hardware is out, it's pretty much available in a cheap pre built system some where, you don't have to wait until the manufacture has a conference to refresh the system.

It may not have fire wire or the wireless, but It's much cheaper and the one I built for the same price has a much faster processor, bigger hd, 2gb of ram, non dedicated gpu, dvd burner and dvd drive, and some other things I think. You can probably put a blue tooth in it for $30 or so....

Well, just to reiterate from my post #51:

Tony-S wrote in post #3119017
Well, if you compare similarly-equipped Macs and PCs, the price is really about the same (at least in the U.S.).

Tony-S wrote in post #3120395
Well, just to reiterate from my post #51:

The $600 dell and the $1074 mini have almost all the same hardware specs, you can't get everything the same because they're not mad by the same company. If you want a wireless card and a bluetooth adapter for the cheap dell, give me $50 and you have a $649 dell that's that's more than $400 cheaper.

The dell that is priced at the exact same as the mini has far superior specs and is almos the exact same price....

How are you going to argue that PC's are not cheaper than apple computers when there's proof right there.

why are you comparing a dell to a mini its apple and oranges?

Zilly wrote in post #3120439
why are you comparing a dell to a mini its apple and oranges?

Because some one said that apples are not more expensive than similarly equipped pc's.

They are.

A dell with a 20" monitor with similar specs as a 20" imac is $1069. The imac is $1499.

is that a better comparison?

Edit: And Apple charges more for upgrades. 2gb of memory? $175 where Dell charges something like $125. Upgrading hardware just puts them at an even greater price difference. It just gets stupid. 3gb of ram? $750 in the apple. Dell has 4gb upgrade for $400

Same here on my nearly 3 year old PC.

The best machine is the one that you're most comfortable with, that gets you from A to B in an easy manner that suits you, and that you can get a good deal on .

In2Photos wrote in post #3107894
I must be lucky then. After my initial install I have yet to find the need to "fine tune all day".

Zilly wrote in post #3120439
why are you comparing a dell to a mini its apple and oranges?

I think it's an obsessive-compulsive thing. There are rabid Mac fans just as bad.

But they are not similarly equipped. You left out several items that make the Mini far superior in some respects (wireless comm, gigabit ethernet, multimedia software, footprint, noise, digital optical I/O), while inferior in others (cpu, GMA). In addition, you really should be comparing Tiger (OS X 10.4) to Vista Ultimate, not Home Premium. How much would Ultimate add to the cost of your machine?

The Dell tower and Mac Mini are not similarly-equipped machines. You should compare iMacs and Mac Pros - it'd be a lot easier to configure similarly-equipped machines.

Village_Idiot wrote in post #3120415
The $600 dell and the $1074 mini have almost all the same hardware specs, you can't get everything the same because they're not mad by the same company. If you want a wireless card and a bluetooth adapter for the cheap dell, give me $50 and you have a $649 dell that's that's more than $400 cheaper.

The dell that is priced at the exact same as the mini has far superior specs and is almos the exact same price....

How are you going to argue that PC's are not cheaper than apple computers when there's proof right there.

Tony-S wrote in post #3120568
But they are not similarly equipped. You left out several items that make the Mini far superior in some respects (wireless comm, gigabit ethernet, multimedia software, footprint, noise, digital optical I/O), while inferior in others (cpu, GMA). In addition, you really should be comparing Tiger (OS X 10.4) to Vista Ultimate, not Home Premium. How much would Ultimate add to the cost of your machine?

The Dell tower and Mac Mini are not similarly-equipped machines. You should compare iMacs and Mac Pros - it'd be a lot easier to configure similarly-equipped machines.

Did...see above.

And Vista ultimate has almost the exact same features as home, just with a few extra things that the average hom owner wouldn't use. This isn't Windows vs. OSX, this is PCs are generall cheaper than apple computers.

Village_Idiot wrote in post #3120457
Because some one said that apples are not more expensive than similarly equipped pc's.

They are.

Sure, and Ford Cars are more expensive than Mercedes cars.

Oh wait, I meant a Ford Gt vs a '86 Mercedes 318i.

Try comparing like models next time.

As for the upgrades, yes apple is typically absurdly overpriced here, but who buys their upgrades from the manufacturer? You may also want to make sure you are comparing the same TYPE of upgrade. Ie: Mini ram is much more expesive than typidal desktop ram. Mac Pro FB Dimms are also much more expensive than typical desktop ram. Comparing a mini to a typical destop from any vendor is just plain nonsense.

transcend wrote in post #3120646
Sure, and Ford Cars are more expensive than Mercedes cars.




Oh wait, I meant a Ford Gt vs a '86 Mercedes 318i.

Try comparing like models next time.

As for the upgrades, yes apple is typically absurdly overpriced here, but who buys their upgrades from the manufacturer? You may also want to make sure you are comparing the same TYPE of upgrade. Ie: Mini ram is much more expesive than typidal desktop ram. Mac Pro FB Dimms are also much more expensive than typical desktop ram. Comparing a mini to a typical destop from any vendor is just plain nonsense.

The ram upgrade post with the prices was comparing a dell desktop and 20" monitor with an imac.

Let me guess, that's not a similar comparison either? To make Apple look good I should be comparing a Mac Pro against a room full of Dell servers....

You can find a similarly equipped pc for cheaper than a mac. That's the beauty of having a million different manufactures and options to choose from vs a company that has such tight control over their computers that they won't allow any one else to run their os on any other machines...

Village_Idiot wrote in post #3120664
vs a company that has such tight control over their computers that they won't allow any one else to run their os on any other machines...

...where all the hardware and software work without conflicts, fear of viruses, spyware or other such nonsense. It is indeed a good world to be in.