Again... Pricing for web gallery use.

Okay. I know what my hourly rates are for a shoot.
I can find pricing for web use of 'advertising' images. I suppose those prices would also be applicable when an image is used on the opening page of a band website.
However, what would you charge when (multiple) images are used in a web gallery, somewhere on a bands website?

Searching Yahoo found some interesting reads, but london freelance fails to load, and all prices I seem to find are for 'advertising' kind of pricing. Frankly, I don't think selling 15 to 20 'gallery' images at well over €100,= a piece would be reasonable....

So: What is reasonable?
I'm thinking about 800px max (since that involves no extra work for me), 2 years licence.
I think I'd also request IPTC is left in the image. Of course, stating my name would be compulsory...

Rene'... Is this OK?
I copied and pasted the On Line Pricing from London Freelance...

photos
Please note that the suggested rates below are minima; that rates for copyright works are for limited licences; and that VAT is not included. See notes on negotiating these rates.

Photographers submitting pictures for use online should seriously consider "watermarking" them. It's not perfect, but it may help track unauthorised copying. Photographers need to obtain an identifying number to go in the watermark: the NUJ recommends the Visual Creators' Index (see the link below).

Read me first! Online use of photos advice
Reported rates, to compare for Online use of photos
The suggested rates (know a better rate? tell us!)
NUJ members discuss rates etc for photography
RATES: Advertorial and newspapers
Online use of photos category: 1 month online

600x800 pixels 175
400x600 pixels 130
300x400 pixels 90

RATES: Advertorial and newspapers
Online use of photos category: 3 months online

600x800 pixels 340
400x600 pixels 225
300x400 pixels 150

RATES: Advertorial and newspapers
Online use of photos category: 6 months online

600x800 pixels 525
400x600 pixels 325
300x400 pixels 230

RATES: Advertorial and newspapers
Online use of photos category: a year online

600x800 pixels 625
400x600 pixels 425
300x400 pixels 325

RATES: Commercial and business
Online use of photos category: 1 month online

600x800 pixels 225
400x600 pixels 165
300x400 pixels 110

RATES: Commercial and business
Online use of photos category: 3 months online

600x800 pixels 450
400x600 pixels 300
300x400 pixels 200

RATES: Commercial and business
Online use of photos category: 6 months online

600x800 pixels 675
400x600 pixels 425
300x400 pixels 300

RATES: Commercial and business
Online use of photos category: a year online

600x800 pixels 850
400x600 pixels 556
300x400 pixels 400

RATES: Editorial
Online use of photos category: 1 month online

600x800 pixels 130
400x600 pixels 85
300x400 pixels 65

RATES: Editorial
Online use of photos category: 3 months online

600x800 pixels 225
400x600 pixels 150
300x400 pixels 110

RATES: Editorial
Online use of photos category: 6 months online

600x800 pixels 350
400x600 pixels 230
300x400 pixels 175

RATES: Editorial
Online use of photos category: a year online

600x800 pixels 425
400x600 pixels 325
300x400 pixels 250

Notes:
For home/menu pages, simultaneous print and web use and/or archived material, add 50%
For images used as icons, charge as for 1/4 page, less 25%
See: Photography / PR - higher rates apply...
See: Index Visual Creators! brief note from the Freelance
See: Search fees

Code of practice for commissioning journalists
Copyright guidelines for editors
for in the Guide whole site
Generally useful links:
Fees Guide contents page
Confirmation of Commission forms
What you should know about copyright
Rates for the Job good, bad and ugly
www.londonfreelance.or​g much more information...
Uploaded: 21 July 2006; text © Mike Holderness & Andrew Wiard; collection © NUJ. Moral rights asserted. Comments to ffg@londonfreelance.or​g please. You may find the glossary helpful.
The National Union of Journalists must not, can not and would not wish to dictate rates or terms of engagement to members or to editors. The information presented here is for guidance and as an aid to equitable negotiation only.

Suggestions apply to contracts governed by UK law only. In any event, nothing here should be construed as legal advice.
Fees Guide homeDiscussion homeGeneral advicePhotography» magazines» public relations» corporate work» national news» regional news» books» broadcasting» online» charges/expensesPictur​e editingFULL INDEX

Thanks for that.
Okay. Since the page loaded for you, I tried some more...
Turned out my router was acting up. Again

Loads now.
Seems to be (roughly) the same fees as I see in the other links I've found. A bit excessive for a 'gallery' of images I'd think. Those are closer to the rates I'd use for promotional images.

On the 'Rate for the Job' link, I've found one mention of 18 images on a 'Nightclub website' (was noted 'underpaid' at GBP 210,= (approx. 17 euro a piece)), and one of 4 pics on a band website. This one was okay at GBP 350,= (at approx 128 euro a piece, I can imagine.)

So I'd guess somewhere around 20 euro per image would be on the low side according to the website, but about appropriate by my standards.

Or am I the only one thinking that there is a difference between images used promotional (opening page of the website for instance, or next to the 'introduction' of the band members) and a gallery ("This was so-and-so gig in that-and-that venue")

I think I'll hold on answering the bands mail 'till tomorrow

Rene, I think that a lot depends on the band's apparent ability to pay as well as if they are selling something. I would charge Tom Jones advertising rates but a local band I would make a package deal of 10 images for $100-200. The thing I shy away from is "free" or the ubiquitous "free for photocredit" (as though they were doing you a favor rather than meeting a well accepted industry standard and obligation.)

[Edit: I currently have a deal with a local band: they pay for domain name, web hosting, menu system and website template and two gigs in exchange for website with images, all of which I have taken. Once they are established (if ever) I will offer to turn the website over to them or they can pay me some token amount.]

I like to think on paper, and itemize the figures for the offer...
Try it a few different ways, think it over, and select the best one, when you are ready to give it to them...

Hopefully someone else will chime in with some feedback too...

Back in March, my pics went to the band "Kansas" as requested by them... They were off from touring for approximately a month, and when they got back to touring, sent me two positive emails... They intend to use them...

I check their web site from time to time... They have a great selection of pics already... Mine will be exclusive and dedicated from the specific venue...

It's taking a long time... I'm not in a hurry as their emails are all positive and right now the band members are choosing their pictures... My compensation is already established prior to the show... It will be interesting to see how much longer it will take them to contact me and/or post the photos...

Other performers/recipients posted my pics within the first month of receipt...

DwightMcCann wrote in post #3173720
Rene, I think that a lot depends on the band's apparent ability to pay as well as if they are selling something. I would charge Tom Jones advertising rates but a local band I would make a package deal of 10 images for $100-200. The thing I shy away from is "free" or the ubiquitous "free for photocredit" (as though they were doing you a favor rather than meeting a well accepted industry standard and obligation.)

Obviously, this is a smaller band. I too wouldn't have to think hard on pricing for a *big* act
Owever, I don't want to 'undercut the market', but I also don't want to price too high.
The 'package deal' you mention is along the lines I was thinking.

The only people I give free images is friends and colleagues at Atak. Not bands.
Learnt that lesson a while back.


Thanks for the comments!

Off to bed for now (almost 1 hour past midnight here)
Will look again tomorrow.

I didn't mention any numbers from my deals because they are in return for some complimentary freebies, references, and future, exclusive deals...

Almost all of the bands whom I contacted, will invite me back as their "Special Guest," to photograph their show for them... It is only by their invitation that I will be able to use my professional "L" lenses at the venue... (and that's because, the venue owns a large regional daily newspaper, and has their own photog. pros on payroll for their own needs...)

My situation is different than most... I'm retired... not willing to travel to other venues... and wish to take pictures only at shows that I choose...

For unsigned locals I generally charge $100 for up to 20 640x480 web use only images. This is only if they are opening for a touring band that I am already going to be at the venue to shoot. If I am heading out to specifically shoot an unsigned local the rate doubles. I am somewhat flexible though; shirts, CDs, videogames, DVDs and adult beverages are known to lower my rates.

damn, i think if i quote that per photo they'll tell me 'good luck' and well wishes...

this also doesn't cover high-res photos, which are made available to various media outlets for publicity use. which, i would think is worth more than just a 800x600 pixel jpg.

I think the example of the 4 images on a band website comes closest: Click

I think "local" and "unsigned" bands were mentioned. I am getting my name out more locally and then getting more good images for personal use by doing a few freebies. If you have a local band that's being paid $500 USD for a local club, take into consideration the number of band members, their travel expenses, food, having to take off work and all and they're almost paying the venue to play. It is difficult in this area to ask bands for the money the pricing list indicates. There is one guy who shoots with a P&S (w/flash) and gives them all the crappy pictures he takes. Most people don't know the difference between what's good and bad.

gcobb - that argument doesn't wash with me. Yes they might get lousy pay but they are in bands for 2 reasons to have fun and hoping to crack it big time to make money doing what they love. Everyone else on the food chain gets paid be it rehearsal studios, studios for demos, t shirt makers, poster printers, music shops for instruments and maintenance, sound guy, door **** etc - why the hell should a photographer, someone with skill and thousands of dollars in equipment (that needs to be paid for and maintained) be expected to be treated differently to any other service provider a band uses?

that said, there is absolutely nothing wrong with giving away freebies at your own discretion (i have and do so on occasion) but it should not be expected by the bands and you can create your own problem when you have given away free stuff once it can lead to the expectation that you will always do photos for free for that client