Help with Colour Calibration

Ive read alot of the posts here and Rene's help is very informative, but Im still confused.

Ive made the mistake I think of using my monitor as the colour profile, but find when printing with an Epson 1800 I get great results. But its online I get the problems.
Im redeveloping my website, you can see on my sig. Looking on different monitors I have access to the differences are wide (I expected some differences) The main graphics are usually much darker, less saturated and less contrast than my screen.

So I changed PS to sRGB opened the main background image, converted the colurs to the workspace (sRGB) resaved it and republished the webpage. Very little difference, slightly more saturation, but still way too dark on other monitors.

So now Im thinking about rushing out to buy a Spider to calibrate. But, if others are not calibrated they are still not going to see images as they should, and IE isnt colour calibrated. So how do I get images to look on the web at least something like intended?
I thought if I ensure they are sRGB this would do it, but seems little different.

Another thing.....once I calibrate properly, what is going to happen with all the images I have painstakingly processed? Calibration will alter the screen so will I have to reprocess, rebalance colours, curves, levels etc again? OMG
Confused....

You shouldn't rush out and buy a hardware calibration device, you should buy the book about color linked from the book thread in my sig. Once you've read that, and only then, should you buy a hardware device. No point going any further until you have a better understanding. Spider isn't the only option either, after a review on smartshooter.com (free registration required) I got an Optix Monaco (or something like that) - standard not pro.

People will give you all kinds of advice, if you're lucky, but you're better off reading the book, getting an understanding yourself, then making up your own mind. Unless you have a really urgent piece of work, then my question will be to describe how critical. You get my drift.

tim thanks for that I will have a look, but more urgently pressing is my worry over work produced to date.
I dont really get why images converted to srgb dont seem any different, but my real concern is will all the images I have produced so far be thrown out if I colour correct my screen? Seems to me they will, so that means starting from scratch again?

Well, you say they print out fine... If the screen is *very* much off, then you might need to redo the images. Don't think so however, since you mentioned that the images doon't look to different when using sRGB vs. your monitors profile...

There is *no way* you can ensure how an image will look on someone else computer. If their screen is ****ed up, the image will look bad. One posibility is to add a greyscale to the site: If that is visible, at least the brightness should be okay.
(Like on the bottom of DPReview)

Best is to make sure you do everything okay. If the other party doesn't you can't alter that...

I agree with Tim that a decent understanding of what's going on is needed. Don't know if you need a book for that (I *still* want to buy the book, but have never got ten around to it. I browse the web, and use Yahoo *a lot*), but the one Tim recommends is good.
I also use the Monaco Optix XR pro. From reviews I've seen, I thought it the better choise. I'm very happy with it.

Hi Rene
If I swap my monitor over to srgb and PS to srgb, the processed images I bring into PS from DPP (srgb) look pretty similar, maybe slightly less saturated. But once I save them from PS they look very saturated in Windows, which isnt colour managed. So thats how I discovered that if I use my monitor profile, they all match up almost perfectly.
When I print to my epson R1800 I find I have to increase vibrancy a tad, but they look pretty good.
But its now outputting to the web, I know there is no way to control it unless everyone was profiled, but I have access to 4 different screens, and looked at a few different photo sites...they all look pretty good. The images I have uploaded to mine look great on my screen, but are miles off on others.
Would you mind having a look www.philnortonphotogra​phy.co.uk the background images are supposed to be dark sepia but plenty of contrast. I just dumped a warehouse image on the home page, whci looks pretty saturated, and too saturated on another screen.

On most recent page there are some scenic images which have plenty of contrast and subtle tones, but again look dark and messy on other screens. What do they look like to you?

Well, the BG image is dark sepia, and with contrast. Hard to tell more, since I don't know what it's supposed to look like...

Are you saying that other photo sites look more alike on your vs. other screens then yours does??? That sounds very weird...

What are the other screens? Calibrated at all?

Also, I don't understand the line"If I swap my monitor over to srgb and PS to srgb, the processed images I bring into PS from DPP (srgb) look pretty similar, maybe slightly less saturated. "

What are you changing, and where? Monitor settings, PS color settings, converting image profiles?

Images with your monitor profile embedded will look identical inside PS and Windows.
Images with sRGB profile will look different in PS and Windows, because your monitor profile is different from sRGB a bit. If they look 'very saturated' in windows, that would mean your monitor has quite a narrower color gamut then sRGB. That would not be too good a monitor...

Try the link in my sig again, there are a few links in there for checking your monitor profile.

Rene
The problem is that there is also text, in a mid grey, that is almost invisible on some monitors.
Sorry what I was refering to before was if I browse other sites on different systems I dont seem to get such a marked difference is colours, as I do if I look at my own. So perhaps the others have used the correct colour spaces/calibrations, and Ive just made a mess. None of the other screens Ive used are calibrated.
Ive been through your thread and the links, ad the quick calibration check. I seem to be ok....not bang on but not desperately far away. The quick gamut utility said my screen is 2.19.....is that bad?
If I change monitor profile in control panel/display/advanced to srgb, and PS to srgb, funny things happen.
1st. I processed a new file from DPP, made sure all apps were srgb, saved from PS after slight adj to levels, and got over saturated colours.
2nd I opened an older file, and from the pop up in PS I chose convert the embedded profile (which would be my monitors) to the workspace (which is set at sRGB). It was slightly washed out and reduced contrast.
So I guess from that what I need to do is get calibrated?
What I dont get is that if I convert a file to sRGB I see no difference between the images.
Ive posted three images below:
1 is processed with my monitor profile. Its supposed to be quite dark and sombre, but not overly dark, still plenty of detail.
2 Is converted to sRGB, and I see no difference whether I have my monitor set to its own proflie or sRGB.
3 Is sRGB, but to compensate for the washed out colours I adjusted them. Once saved out from PS again, in any other app its much darker, whci I really dont get.
Is there a difference for you, or anyone else reading?

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image 2 and 3

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I would suggest having someone else color correct your images until you have the tools and understanding to do it yourself. If they're for prints use a professional lab that can do color correction for you. If they're for web then you might have to find someone to do it for you.

I've been doing color correction for two years and my prints look great 99% of the time, but I still rely on my album company (Queensberry) to do color correction for albums. They're just really really good at it. Cost is not too bad.

btw the big sky scene on your home page looks great to me, on my calibrated system.

Tim thanks for that....can I ask, does the text look ok, the darker text on my logo seems too dark, and on the images I just posted can you see any difference? 1 and 2 look the same, 3 is too dark to me.

Its not prints Im struggling with, I find that just a slight boost to vividness sorts it out, tho Im suspecting it wouldnt be needed if my calibration / workspace was correct. Its getting images online to look ok.

ps thought I was the only grumpy old b********* getting grumpier by the minute hehe

Scrolling down the page I can't see any differences between those images in firefox.

Tim just been reading up, OMG its 2am.......so I gather that my big mistake so far is having an embedded profile for my monitor in images......I should make sure they have srgb for web images?
If I convert to profile will the sRGB profile then be embedded in the image? From what I gather IE uses sRGB or nothing, but other browsers will read the embedded profile...if Im getting my head around it.
In the PS dialog what are the Engine and Intent dropdowns, is there specic settings? The are Adobe and Relative Colourmetric by default.

Been through all the stuff as rene recomended and its seems my gamma is not too far off, though I appreciate its not accurate. My concern is even if I hand over to some experts to sort me out (a local company) all my images so far will be way off, so will I be startting from scratch again? Im hoping that when I open in PS the profile miss match will pop up, I can select to match the workspace (a properly profiled space) and then tweak to they are back as intended. I tried this in the last image I posted....set PS to srgb, opened image, got mismatch profile, selected convert colours to match workspace, and then tweaked because it became desaturated. I can see a big difference out of PS its now too saturated, but you dont see a difference. Is that because Im not calibrated, and you are, and the image is correct? Head hurts but really trying...Martin Evening has a whole chapter in his book so bed to read.....

All my images are 8bit RGB, is this different to sRGB?