Jpeg w/ imbedded sRGB does not display the same in CS2 compared to Firefox

If I view a jpeg that has sRGB color spaced embed in it in CS2, i should expect that picture to look identical when view in other non-color managed software like Firefox....shouldn't I. I was very surprise to find that FF display the picture with more vibrant than CS2. To make CS2 show the Jpeg the same way FF does, I need to use the soft-proof feature in CS2 and choose "Monitor" as the output. Does anyone, besides me, find that strange? Any comments on this topic would be appreciated.

I'm using Photoshop CS2 on XP, and a generic LCD monitor.

My monitor is calibrated with a ColorVision Sypder 2 device.

My Photoshop's color settings is the "North American Prepress 2" preset which effectively selects "Adobe RGB (1998)" as the working colorspace.

Here is my workflow from .CR2 to .JPG.

* Set ACR to output from RAW to Photoshop as 16bit@channel with "Adobe RGB (1998)" colorspace.

* Adjust photo is necessary

* Convert to sRGB colorspace

* Reduce to bit@channel (INVALID EMAIL)

* Save as a JPEG file with compression and embed the sRGB colorspace profile in the JPEG file

fedex wrote in post #3210066
If I view a jpeg that has sRGB color spaced embed in it in CS2, i should expect that picture to look identical when view in other non-color managed software like Firefox....shouldn't I.

No. You will see the difference between your display profile and sRGB.
Have a read in the link from my sig...

Rene,

Thanks for the quick reply. I did read the "sticky" on your post regarding "Color Problems". In it, you did say that there will "be a (slight) difference between a non color managed application and PS, even displaying an sRGB file (due to) the difference between your display profile and the sRGB standard.".

This is a surprise to me because I thought the display profile created from the Spyder 2 calibration tool was applied globably by the Windows operation system during boot up. Thinking along that line, I then assumed that even non-color managed appplications, like Firefox, would make use of the display profile. That is, the display profile created by the Spyder 2 is not just limited for use by color managed applications like PS or AcDSEE Pro. I guess I'm wrong. I'll follow the links in you post and dig further on the topic.

Thanks again.

Here's an overview of monitor profiling that I've posted before. I hope it helps you understand how the profile/calibration are applied:

Creating a monitor profile has 2 parts:

1 - Calibration: the display is adjusted (via settings in the graphics card and maybe the monitor controls) to get things like colour temperature, gamma etc. correct. All applications see the effect of the calibration - this is what gets loaded to the graphics card when the system starts up.

2 - Profiling: the response of the calibrated display is accurately measured to create a profile of how it displays colour. This profile is used by profile-aware applications to adjust the colours sent to the graphics card and monitor. Without these adjustments, the colour displayed will not be accurate.

Photoshop or PSE, as you can imagine, is profile-aware and displays accurate colour. Most other applications (e.g. web browsers, Windows itself) are not profile-aware, do not correct the colours sent to the graphics card, and do not display accurate colour. That is why you are seeing a difference.

Unfortunately (unless your PC is a Mac!), if you want a profiled monitor you have to put up with a difference between Photoshop/PSE and most other applications. Photoshop/PSE is correct

gcogger

Thanks for the explanation. I just finished reading the article in
http://www.normankoren​.com/color_management_​2A.html from Norman Koren. He, too, was trying to explaing the difference between profiling and calibration, but I like your explanation better.

I was actually just going to start a thread on this very same problem. The workflow you're describing is essentially the same as I'm doing but the resulting jpeg I get is vastly different than what I'm seeing in photoshop.

It's a lot darker with tons of clipping in the shadow areas and a lot 'warmer' and generally looks gross and is unusable. I've used the Eye One Display 2 to calibrate the monitor, but what's the point if the end product is so drastically different than what I'm seeing in photoshop?

Anyways if anyone can offer advice I'd appreciate it, and I hope I'm not thread hijacking, it's just our workflows and problem was so close to identical I thought I'd just join up with this one.

Kurt

What profile in the jpg?
What color settings in PS?
Some screenshots?
Tried the link in my sig?

OK I dont know if this applies to you guys, but I had a problem where I would work from CS2 to open and edit my RAW files, save them as JPEGs, and when I open the JPEGs, the colors were much different than they were when I was originally working on them in CS2. I found this had to do with the COLOR SPACE in CS2. I use the Adobe 1998 space.

So what I did was before saving, I would convert the workspace to LAB, then BACK to RGB, and then save. Colors came out looking just like they do when working from the RAW. I made an action for it, and just run it on the files I work on.

I'm not sure if this applies to the profile issues most of you are having, but it was an issue I had, and someone mentioned this and it worked.

Well in my case I start with ProPhoto in LR, do some color correction there, edit in photoshop in ProPhoto, do what I need to do there. Then I change to 8-bit, and go Edit - Convert To Profile and change to sRGB. In photoshop it still looks fine at this point.

Then I go File - Save As and save it as a jpeg with sRGB embedded profile.

Then if I go to explorer and open it in Windows Picture and Fax Viewer (default viewer thing) or IE the colors are radically different as described above.

If within photoshop instead of using convert to profile (or even after I do the convert), I do the save for web, in the save for web preview it immediately shows the mis colored version.

If in LR I use the Export feature, it also exports a mis colored version.

I am working my way through the links in your sig and really appreciate the time you've put into it. I just have no idea where to really start with this.

Kurt

Twitch, that sounds exactly like the problem I had above, try what I mentioned and see if that works for you.

Reminisce wrote in post #3215076
Twitch, that sounds exactly like the problem I had above, try what I mentioned and see if that works for you.

I will try that out for sure, weird that a conversion to LAB would fix it, but at this point I'll try anything.

Kurt

Reminisce wrote in post #3215004
OK I dont know if this applies to you guys, but I had a problem where I would work from CS2 to open and edit my RAW files, save them as JPEGs, and when I open the JPEGs, the colors were much different than they were when I was originally working on them in CS2. I found this had to do with the COLOR SPACE in CS2. I use the Adobe 1998 space.

So what I did was before saving, I would convert the workspace to LAB, then BACK to RGB, and then save. Colors came out looking just like they do when working from the RAW. I made an action for it, and just run it on the files I work on.

I'm having a very hard time understanding this...
What are your color settings in PS? Are you sure you're embedding an ICC profile?
Converting to Lab and back should not make any difference. The error is either in the saving or opening (not including a profile or ignoring it) I'd think...

Twitch1977 wrote in post #3215051
Well in my case I start with ProPhoto in LR, do some color correction there, edit in photoshop in ProPhoto, do what I need to do there. Then I change to 8-bit, and go Edit - Convert To Profile and change to sRGB. In photoshop it still looks fine at this point.

Then I go File - Save As and save it as a jpeg with sRGB embedded profile.

Then if I go to explorer and open it in Windows Picture and Fax Viewer (default viewer thing) or IE the colors are radically different as described above.

If within photoshop instead of using convert to profile (or even after I do the convert), I do the save for web, in the save for web preview it immediately shows the mis colored version.

If in LR I use the Export feature, it also exports a mis colored version.

I am working my way through the links in your sig and really appreciate the time you've put into it. I just have no idea where to really start with this.

Kurt

I think checking your monitor profile is a good start.
Sounds like that could be the problem, since it's far from sRGB by the sound of it...
Maybe post a screenshot of the 'Save for Web' screen? (I assume you have it set to display 'Uncompensated Color'?)

René Damkot wrote in post #3215610
I'm having a very hard time understanding this...
What are your color settings in PS? Are you sure you're embedding an ICC profile?
Converting to Lab and back should not make any difference. The error is either in the saving or opening (not including a profile or ignoring it) I'd think...

Trust me, this works for me, and I actually found this solution on this very forum when someone else listed they had the same problem I had. Saving a JPEG using the Adobe 1998 colorspace would yield more bland colors. Someone mentioned converting the image to LAB, and then back to RGB, and everyone was saying it worked. I tried it and it works for me. I don't have the explanation as to how this works, but I will find the link and post it.

Please do. I'm curious.
Just double checking: If you open a CR2 in AdobeRGB working space, and save a jpg with embedded AdobeRGB profile, it looks different when opened again in PS?
Yet if you open a CR2 in AdobeRGB, convert to Lab, convert to AdobeRGB again (I assume it stays looking the same in PS?), and then save a jpg with embedded AdobeRGB profile, it doesn't look different when opened again in PS?

Makes no sense to me, so I'm curious for that link (couldn't find it myself).

Yeah lets say for example you open up a RAW in CS2, and it was AdobeRGB, and you did all your editing. Then did Save for Web for example.
When you look in the Save for Web preview screen, you can even see the colors look different, bland, more flat before you save.

Change the color space to LAB or CMYK for example, and then do Save for web to see. And it looks like its supposed to. Changing it BACK to RGB was just something someone else added, and I use that because I print in RGB. I can't make sense of it either, and Im a photoshop freak. All i know is it works, and its used in all my RAW conversions. I think the person that initially mentioned the colorspace needed to be changed was Tim. I still cannot find the thread...