Approve the Cookies
This website uses cookies to improve your user experience. By using this site, you agree to our use of cookies and our Privacy Policy.
OK
Forums  •   • New posts  •   • RTAT  •   • 'Best of'  •   • Gallery  •   • Gear
Guest
Forums  •   • New posts  •   • RTAT  •   • 'Best of'  •   • Gallery  •   • Gear
Register to forums    Log in

 
FORUMS Cameras, Lenses & Accessories Canon Digital Cameras 
Thread started 18 May 2004 (Tuesday) 09:28
Search threadPrev/next
sponsored links (only for non-logged)

Fixed Focal vs Zoom

 
CoolToolGuy
Boosting Ruler Sales
Avatar
4,175 posts
Joined Aug 2003
Location: Maryland, USA
     
May 19, 2004 06:22 |  #16

MarkH wrote:
droosan wrote:
Other advantages:

Cheaper

How are primes cheaper?

For a 24-70 you would really need a 24, 35, 50 and 70 to equal what it can do, the zoom is definately much cheaper.

B&H Prices:
-24-70 f2.8L = $1150

-24 f2.8 = $280
-35 f2.0 = $220
-50 f1.4 = $295
-85 f1.8 = $325
total = $1120

The primes win on the price front, and that includes the 50 f1.4. If you want to save another $200, go for the 1.8. (Oops, I forgot the hoods - that would drive the primes over)

Don't get me wrong, I like my 24-70, but when I get myself into a dimly lit situation, the primes win, no contest. Not only are they faster and sharper, but that 24-70 L is a big, heavy lens to be hand-holding at 2.8, regardless of the rule of thumb of 1 over focal length - I would never be able to hold it at 24mm with a 1/30 shutter speed.

Try them, you may find yourself in the prime of your life! :wink:

Have Fun


Rick

My Gear list

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
karusel
Goldmember
Avatar
1,452 posts
Joined Nov 2003
Location: Location: Location:
     
May 19, 2004 09:33 |  #17

That is very interesting. However, it actually depends on what you need and what you want. 24-70 perhaps offers slightly lesser sharpness, but you don't have to change lens every five seconds -and risk dust getting to the sensor-, when you decide for a differend composition, theme, whatever. If you're a true professional, by all means, go with the primes, if you're an advanced amateur, 24-70 will definetely suffice. That said, it is sometimes much better to use a prime, and that is in low light conditions, 50 1.4 is quite unbeatable at it.


5D and holy trinity of primes. Now the 90mm TS-E TS-E fly bit me. I hate these forums.

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Tom ­ W
Canon Fanosapien
Avatar
12,749 posts
Likes: 30
Joined Feb 2003
Location: Chattanooga, Tennessee
     
May 19, 2004 10:16 |  #18

CoolToolGuy wrote:
B&H Prices:
-24-70 f2.8L = $1150

-24 f2.8 = $280
-35 f2.0 = $220
-50 f1.4 = $295
-85 f1.8 = $325
total = $1120

The primes win on the price front, and that includes the 50 f1.4. If you want to save another $200, go for the 1.8. (Oops, I forgot the hoods - that would drive the primes over)

Don't get me wrong, I like my 24-70, but when I get myself into a dimly lit situation, the primes win, no contest. Not only are they faster and sharper, but that 24-70 L is a big, heavy lens to be hand-holding at 2.8, regardless of the rule of thumb of 1 over focal length - I would never be able to hold it at 24mm with a 1/30 shutter speed.

Try them, you may find yourself in the prime of your life! :wink:

Have Fun

Well, I'd have to say that there's more to the equation than price. For example, not every lens you listed has true ring-type USM focusing. In terms of focus speed and accuracy, I believe that the 24-70 is hard to beat. And as for dimly lit, f/2.8 isn't terrible for most applications, particularly since the 24-70 does it so well. And of course, there's the convenience of not having to change lenses frequently.

That said, I have yet to find a substitute for my 50/1.4. It has most definately got its purpose in life and those extra 2 stops of light (not to mention that DOF) are quite useful when flash isn't acceptable. I'll probably be adding to the prime collection at some point in the future, but that's not at the top of my list right now. I rarely find myself in those kinds of situations where the zoom won't do the job.


Tom
5D IV, M5, RP, & various lenses

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
CoolToolGuy
Boosting Ruler Sales
Avatar
4,175 posts
Joined Aug 2003
Location: Maryland, USA
     
May 19, 2004 11:09 |  #19

Tom W wrote:
Well, I'd have to say that there's more to the equation than price. For example, not every lens you listed has true ring-type USM focusing. In terms of focus speed and accuracy, I believe that the 24-70 is hard to beat. And as for dimly lit, f/2.8 isn't terrible for most applications, particularly since the 24-70 does it so well. And of course, there's the convenience of not having to change lenses frequently.

That said, I have yet to find a substitute for my 50/1.4. It has most definately got its purpose in life and those extra 2 stops of light (not to mention that DOF) are quite useful when flash isn't acceptable. I'll probably be adding to the prime collection at some point in the future, but that's not at the top of my list right now. I rarely find myself in those kinds of situations where the zoom won't do the job.

The question that was addressed was price. And there IS more to a lens purchase than price. But ring-type USM focusing has not risen to the top of my priority list as of yet. A nicety, yes, but USM focusing in the Drebel kit lens (available in Japan) doesn't turn it into serious competition with the 50mm f1.4 in the image-quality department.

I originally got my 85 f.18 at the same time as my 24-70 L to do some theater work. My original vision was to use the 24-70 most of the time, and use the 85 for portraits. I started out moving around, shooting the early blocking, tech and rehearsals, and the zoom was very flexible, as zooms are.

Then I started shooting from a seat during dress rehearsals (and ultimately the performances) and I had the opportunity to change lenses and do some tests. The 85 really started to show its stuff - I kept the ISO at 200, which gave me much better image quality than the 400 and 800 ISOs I was using with the 24-70. And although I kept using the monopod that I had to use with the 24-70, I was able to use better shutter speeds (1/60 and above) to capture the cast during those short periods when they are not moving.

The other thing I always notice and mention about the 24-70 L is its size and weight. That puppy is very big (takes a 77mm filter), long (with the hood on, it looks like some 70-200s), and heavy (2.1 pounds). It is a lot to handle, and in low light levels a monopod is a necessity to eliminate shake - I think Canon should consider IS for it like they do for the 70-200.

So zoom if you must, but there certainly is a place for primes today, and if you have specific needs (like low light settings), a series of primes may be the right choice.


Rick

My Gear list

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Tom ­ W
Canon Fanosapien
Avatar
12,749 posts
Likes: 30
Joined Feb 2003
Location: Chattanooga, Tennessee
     
May 19, 2004 11:39 |  #20

CoolToolGuy wrote:
The question that was addressed was price. And there IS more to a lens purchase than price. But ring-type USM focusing has not risen to the top of my priority list as of yet. A nicety, yes, but USM focusing in the Drebel kit lens (available in Japan) doesn't turn it into serious competition with the 50mm f1.4 in the image-quality department.

I realize that the issue was price, but I was pointing out that price ought not be the only consideration. And I'll also point out that the USM on my 24-70 routinely focuses faster and more accurately than that of my 50/1.4. Image-wise, the 1.4 has an edge, at least at wide apertures, but it isn't that significant for my purposes most of the time. YMMV, of course.

I originally got my 85 f.18 at the same time as my 24-70 L to do some theater work. My original vision was to use the 24-70 most of the time, and use the 85 for portraits. I started out moving around, shooting the early blocking, tech and rehearsals, and the zoom was very flexible, as zooms are.

Then I started shooting from a seat during dress rehearsals (and ultimately the performances) and I had the opportunity to change lenses and do some tests. The 85 really started to show its stuff - I kept the ISO at 200, which gave me much better image quality than the 400 and 800 ISOs I was using with the 24-70. And although I kept using the monopod that I had to use with the 24-70, I was able to use better shutter speeds (1/60 and above) to capture the cast during those short periods when they are not moving.

The other thing I always notice and mention about the 24-70 L is its size and weight. That puppy is very big (takes a 77mm filter), long (with the hood on, it looks like some 70-200s), and heavy (2.1 pounds). It is a lot to handle, and in low light levels a monopod is a necessity to eliminate shake - I think Canon should consider IS for it like they do for the 70-200.

So zoom if you must, but there certainly is a place for primes today, and if you have specific needs (like low light settings), a series of primes may be the right choice.

I guess that it all depends on the situation - I can see the usefullness of very fast lenses in your kind of work, but for most of what I do, f/2.8 is fast enough. As long as you are able to work out the position/focal length issues and have the ability to switch lenses when needed, then primes are at an advantage.

For me, the zoom does well, and its convenient, quick and portable compared to primes. But I don't shoot the same situations that you do. And that's probably the most important factor in the ongoing prime-vs-zoom debate.


Tom
5D IV, M5, RP, & various lenses

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
nosquare2003
Senior Member
861 posts
Likes: 1
Joined Dec 2003
Location: Hong Kong, China
     
May 19, 2004 11:53 |  #21

karusel wrote:
That is very interesting. However, it actually depends on what you need and what you want. 24-70 perhaps offers slightly lesser sharpness, but you don't have to change lens every five seconds -and risk dust getting to the sensor-, when you decide for a differend composition, theme, whatever. If you're a true professional, by all means, go with the primes, if you're an advanced amateur, 24-70 will definetely suffice. That said, it is sometimes much better to use a prime, and that is in low light conditions, 50 1.4 is quite unbeatable at it.

1. I don't think that changing lens a big problem in DSLR. Otherwise I will buy the 28-300L lens -- no, no, I don't want it.
2. I'm just a casual user but I like using primes. I don't want to argue whether prime or zoom lenses are better. They are just different. However, I don't agree that only a true professional needs prime lenses. On the contrary, I think that prime lenses are best for "some" beginners. If I started photography by zoom lenses, I would be too lazy to walk around for composition. But it is FUN using prime lenses -- and I have learnt more than zoom lenses.




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
nosquare2003
Senior Member
861 posts
Likes: 1
Joined Dec 2003
Location: Hong Kong, China
     
May 19, 2004 12:13 |  #22

Tom W wrote:
CoolToolGuy wrote:
The question that was addressed was price. And there IS more to a lens purchase than price. But ring-type USM focusing has not risen to the top of my priority list as of yet. A nicety, yes, but USM focusing in the Drebel kit lens (available in Japan) doesn't turn it into serious competition with the 50mm f1.4 in the image-quality department.

I realize that the issue was price, but I was pointing out that price ought not be the only consideration. And I'll also point out that the USM on my 24-70 routinely focuses faster and more accurately than that of my 50/1.4. Image-wise, the 1.4 has an edge, at least at wide apertures, but it isn't that significant for my purposes most of the time. YMMV, of course.

I originally got my 85 f.18 at the same time as my 24-70 L to do some theater work. My original vision was to use the 24-70 most of the time, and use the 85 for portraits. I started out moving around, shooting the early blocking, tech and rehearsals, and the zoom was very flexible, as zooms are.

Then I started shooting from a seat during dress rehearsals (and ultimately the performances) and I had the opportunity to change lenses and do some tests. The 85 really started to show its stuff - I kept the ISO at 200, which gave me much better image quality than the 400 and 800 ISOs I was using with the 24-70. And although I kept using the monopod that I had to use with the 24-70, I was able to use better shutter speeds (1/60 and above) to capture the cast during those short periods when they are not moving.

The other thing I always notice and mention about the 24-70 L is its size and weight. That puppy is very big (takes a 77mm filter), long (with the hood on, it looks like some 70-200s), and heavy (2.1 pounds). It is a lot to handle, and in low light levels a monopod is a necessity to eliminate shake - I think Canon should consider IS for it like they do for the 70-200.

So zoom if you must, but there certainly is a place for primes today, and if you have specific needs (like low light settings), a series of primes may be the right choice.

I guess that it all depends on the situation - I can see the usefullness of very fast lenses in your kind of work, but for most of what I do, f/2.8 is fast enough. As long as you are able to work out the position/focal length issues and have the ability to switch lenses when needed, then primes are at an advantage.

For me, the zoom does well, and its convenient, quick and portable compared to primes. But I don't shoot the same situations that you do. And that's probably the most important factor in the ongoing prime-vs-zoom debate.


1. The autofocus speed for 50mm primes are slow. But autofocus speed for other prime lens are quite fast. (100/2.8 is another slow autofocus lens.)
2. If there is a need to change focal length in very fast and frequent situations, a zoom lens will be better. But it won't take a long time to change small prime lenses -- if the subject can wait a bit. Sometimes even a zoom lens doesn't work. Suppose we attach the 24-70/2.8L on the camera. Suddenly an eagle flew in the sky and we want to take a shot of it. And we still need to change to a longer lens.




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Tom ­ W
Canon Fanosapien
Avatar
12,749 posts
Likes: 30
Joined Feb 2003
Location: Chattanooga, Tennessee
     
May 19, 2004 12:43 |  #23

nosquare2003 wrote:
1. The autofocus speed for 50mm primes are slow. But autofocus speed for other prime lens are quite fast. (100/2.8 is another slow autofocus lens.)

I believe that the 100/2.8 is the Macro lens, and is slow primarily by virtue of its extraordinary focus range. Isn't it also equipped with a range-limiting switch for "normal" shooting? I can't speak for all the primes, but I notice that several are equipped with ring-type USM which is very fast, accurate, and allows full-time manual. So, I guess the 50 isn't the best example of focus speed.

2. If there is a need to change focal length in very fast and frequent situations, a zoom lens will be better. But it won't take a long time to change small prime lenses -- if the subject can wait a bit. Sometimes even a zoom lens doesn't work. Suppose we attach the 24-70/2.8L on the camera. Suddenly an eagle flew in the sky and we want to take a shot of it. And we still need to change to a longer lens.

It just shows that Canon needs to hurry up and develop that 15-500 f/1.4 DO IS USM, double overhead cam, fuel injected, superheterodyne, dual conversion, twin prop, air conditioned, aluminum-sided thermopane zoom lens that we need so bad. :D

As for the eagle - regardless of the lens I carry, I probably left the camera bag at home anyway. ;)


Tom
5D IV, M5, RP, & various lenses

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
where1
Senior Member
354 posts
Joined Oct 2003
     
May 19, 2004 12:50 |  #24

Tom W wrote:
It just shows that Canon needs to hurry up and develop that 15-500 f/1.4 DO IS USM, double overhead cam, fuel injected, superheterodyne, dual conversion, twin prop, air conditioned, aluminum-sided thermopane zoom lens that we need so bad. :D

I hope it comes with a tripod mount. :D




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
CoolToolGuy
Boosting Ruler Sales
Avatar
4,175 posts
Joined Aug 2003
Location: Maryland, USA
     
May 19, 2004 13:23 |  #25

Tom W wrote:
It just shows that Canon needs to hurry up and develop that 15-500 f/1.4 DO IS USM, double overhead cam, fuel injected, superheterodyne, dual conversion, twin prop, air conditioned, aluminum-sided thermopane zoom lens that we need so bad. :D

Tom, those are some really good specs, but I won't even consider it unless it is also low-carb. :roll:


Rick

My Gear list

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Tom ­ W
Canon Fanosapien
Avatar
12,749 posts
Likes: 30
Joined Feb 2003
Location: Chattanooga, Tennessee
     
May 19, 2004 13:50 |  #26

CoolToolGuy wrote:
Tom W wrote:
It just shows that Canon needs to hurry up and develop that 15-500 f/1.4 DO IS USM, double overhead cam, fuel injected, superheterodyne, dual conversion, twin prop, air conditioned, aluminum-sided thermopane zoom lens that we need so bad. :D

Tom, those are some really good specs, but I won't even consider it unless it is also low-carb. :roll:

:D

Not only low carb but high fiber, low fat, low sodium, high diffractive protein, and absolutely no trans-fatty acids.

Shoots great, less filling!


Tom
5D IV, M5, RP, & various lenses

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
CoolToolGuy
Boosting Ruler Sales
Avatar
4,175 posts
Joined Aug 2003
Location: Maryland, USA
     
May 19, 2004 13:54 |  #27

Tom W wrote:
CoolToolGuy wrote:
Tom W wrote:
It just shows that Canon needs to hurry up and develop that 15-500 f/1.4 DO IS USM, double overhead cam, fuel injected, superheterodyne, dual conversion, twin prop, air conditioned, aluminum-sided thermopane zoom lens that we need so bad. :D

Tom, those are some really good specs, but I won't even consider it unless it is also low-carb. :roll:

:D

Not only low carb but high fiber, low fat, low sodium, high diffractive protein, and absolutely no trans-fatty acids.

Shoots great, less filling!

So, you figure out a way to get a little Viagra into the mix, and they'll sell a million of them! :wink: :) :D :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


Rick

My Gear list

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Tom ­ W
Canon Fanosapien
Avatar
12,749 posts
Likes: 30
Joined Feb 2003
Location: Chattanooga, Tennessee
     
May 19, 2004 14:06 |  #28

CoolToolGuy wrote:
Tom W wrote:
CoolToolGuy wrote:
Tom W wrote:
It just shows that Canon needs to hurry up and develop that 15-500 f/1.4 DO IS USM, double overhead cam, fuel injected, superheterodyne, dual conversion, twin prop, air conditioned, aluminum-sided thermopane zoom lens that we need so bad. :D

Tom, those are some really good specs, but I won't even consider it unless it is also low-carb. :roll:

:D

Not only low carb but high fiber, low fat, low sodium, high diffractive protein, and absolutely no trans-fatty acids.

Shoots great, less filling!

So, you figure out a way to get a little Viagra into the mix, and they'll sell a million of them! :wink: :) :D :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


LOL! But wouldn't the viagra counteract the effect of the DO optics? :twisted:


Tom
5D IV, M5, RP, & various lenses

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
DieselGirl
THREAD ­ STARTER
Senior Member
Avatar
270 posts
Joined Apr 2004
     
May 19, 2004 14:16 |  #29

CoolToolGuy wrote:
Tom W wrote:
It just shows that Canon needs to hurry up and develop that 15-500 f/1.4 DO IS USM, double overhead cam, fuel injected, superheterodyne, dual conversion, twin prop, air conditioned, aluminum-sided thermopane zoom lens that we need so bad. :D

Tom, those are some really good specs, but I won't even consider it unless it is also low-carb. :roll:

NOW WE'RE TALKING!!!!!!!!!




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
CoolToolGuy
Boosting Ruler Sales
Avatar
4,175 posts
Joined Aug 2003
Location: Maryland, USA
     
May 19, 2004 14:24 |  #30

Tom W wrote:
CoolToolGuy wrote:
Tom W wrote:
CoolToolGuy wrote:
Tom W wrote:
It just shows that Canon needs to hurry up and develop that 15-500 f/1.4 DO IS USM, double overhead cam, fuel injected, superheterodyne, dual conversion, twin prop, air conditioned, aluminum-sided thermopane zoom lens that we need so bad. :D

Tom, those are some really good specs, but I won't even consider it unless it is also low-carb. :roll:

:D

Not only low carb but high fiber, low fat, low sodium, high diffractive protein, and absolutely no trans-fatty acids.

Shoots great, less filling!

So, you figure out a way to get a little Viagra into the mix, and they'll sell a million of them! :wink: :) :D :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


LOL! But wouldn't the viagra counteract the effect of the DO optics? :twisted:

Well, from what I've seen, the DO elements are a little like the ribs on a (pick your favorite term for a protective device), so it could actually enhance the experience! :oops:


Rick

My Gear list

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
sponsored links (only for non-logged)

5,010 views & 0 likes for this thread, 16 members have posted to it.
Fixed Focal vs Zoom
FORUMS Cameras, Lenses & Accessories Canon Digital Cameras 
AAA
x 1600
y 1600

Jump to forum...   •  Rules   •  Forums   •  New posts   •  RTAT   •  'Best of'   •  Gallery   •  Gear   •  Reviews   •  Member list   •  Polls   •  Image rules   •  Search   •  Password reset   •  Home

Not a member yet?
Register to forums
Registered members may log in to forums and access all the features: full search, image upload, follow forums, own gear list and ratings, likes, more forums, private messaging, thread follow, notifications, own gallery, all settings, view hosted photos, own reviews, see more and do more... and all is free. Don't be a stranger - register now and start posting!


COOKIES DISCLAIMER: This website uses cookies to improve your user experience. By using this site, you agree to our use of cookies and to our privacy policy.
Privacy policy and cookie usage info.


POWERED BY AMASS forum software 2.58forum software
version 2.58 /
code and design
by Pekka Saarinen ©
for photography-on-the.net

Latest registered member was a spammer, and banned as such!
1838 guests, 104 members online
Simultaneous users record so far is 15,144, that happened on Nov 22, 2018

Photography-on-the.net Digital Photography Forums is the website for photographers and all who love great photos, camera and post processing techniques, gear talk, discussion and sharing. Professionals, hobbyists, newbies and those who don't even own a camera -- all are welcome regardless of skill, favourite brand, gear, gender or age. Registering and usage is free.