Survey for a class... HELP PLEASE!

Sorry Ronald,

I definitively wasn't pointing you directly (for the criminal analogy). When reading all the posts here, I was under the impression that there were a more than two about that analogy. I guess it's because I heard that comparison before and don't really find that it quite describes the school programs encouraging (ok, forcing!) kids to do "volunteering" work.

While the ends may not justify the means, I still tend to agree with such programs. While volunteering a few years ago, I saw some kid that helped us out because of a similar program of forced torture-like work that is community services. When I met him, he had the type of "I-dunno-I-don't-care" mentality. His tasks fincluded supervising a community computer access center and helping job seekers/web surfers with any technical problems that they would encounter. Only his presence there allowed us to open the center a few extra hours per week. I saw that kid change a lot during his stay with us. While it wasn't a total make-over as we're used to see on TV, I believe that he learned a lot from this experience. Would he have joined such a volunteering group on his own? I doubt it. I know that this experience and other positive experiences are biasing me favorably towards such programs. But I am aware that not all kids will react the same to this.

While I don't really agree to forcing kids to do "volunteering" activities (I agree, we need another word to describe these activities, it's not "volunteering" if it's forced), I sometimes feel it's the only way to balance a society that is less and less conscientious. I'm an observer by nature and I tend to notice that parents don't educate their children as much as they should (I don't have any scientific data to prove this other than my humble experience and I hope I'm wrong!). I am not opposed to changes and maybe these kids will end up doing a lot better things than those who are well educated (notice that I'm not talking about schooling here, but rather common qualities such as respect, humility, compassion, etc). But I still feel that many kids are much self centered and competitive at an early age. I'm just one to hope that the torture programs like these may bring a bit more human feelings in our teens and young adults.

And CondyK, I agree that 'forced parenting' classes would be a good thing for many "parents" If parents (and the population as a whole) would take their responsibilities seriously, we'd be a whole lot better as a society. But unfortunately, we seem to be heading towards a responsibility-less society that enjoy playing the blame game...

To the OP, my apologies to bring such a discussion to your thread. I know this wasn't your intention... Let me know if you want me to remove my posts, I will gladly do so.

Also, to everyone else, I'm not trying to convince anyone. This is my opinion and I don't even favor "forlunteering" (forced volunteering, do you like my new word?) as much as I favor good parenting and the promotion of fundamental values. But with forlunteering, I tend to see a bit more positive than negative. Other than kids not giving their best to do the job, what are the other important negative aspects of such a program (other than labeling kids as criminals)?

TD, work experience within the chosen profession is fine, this gives the opportunities described for personal growth, ie at a local public law advisory service for a law student In this case.
But same person studying law for example, gains nothing from enforced wall painting or bin cleaning. Forcing kids/young adults into menial 'character building exercises' is nothing more than community slavery with a politically correct name.

As for choosing to go to university or the university with the policy, if all universities subscribed to this policy what choice does a young person have to better their career opportunity? None. Slave for your community or flip burgers for the rest of their lives.

I think young people in the main are just as lazy or hard working as old people. It's not an ageist thing it's an individualistic trait, I have met as many mean/nastier egotistical and rude elderly people as young people. Give young people some credit. Bad people in need of 'character building' are found through all age groups.
Only difference between the young and old is the young think they know it all, the old know they know it all

chloeosmom wrote in post #3311628
i do beleive it should be for High School Grad.

We discussed this before putting up the poll, but since it was for a college class, we figured it made more sense to make it for college.

Ain't all that the truth JCR ... wise words fella.

voted

1000 hours a year for you Stav kid ... you need it

maybe not community service- but everybody should have to wait tables and serve a very unhappy, obnoxious person at least once

Thank you all again...this will really help me out when i have to write my paper. I know i didn't want a discussion or anything, but it made me see why people voted the way they did. Anyways thanks again its really going to help me out.

kathy.patterson wrote in post #3312860
maybe not community service- but everybody should have to wait tables and serve a very unhappy, obnoxious person at least once

Why should Condy get all the service?:p

Nah...I'd call him happily obnoxious.

JCR wrote in post #3312649
TD, work experience within the chosen profession is fine, this gives the opportunities described for personal growth, ie at a local public law advisory service for a law student In this case.
But same person studying law for example, gains nothing from enforced wall painting or bin cleaning. Forcing kids/young adults into menial 'character building exercises' is nothing more than community slavery with a politically correct name.

As for choosing to go to university or the university with the policy, if all universities subscribed to this policy what choice does a young person have to better their career opportunity? None. Slave for your community or flip burgers for the rest of their lives.

I think young people in the main are just as lazy or hard working as old people. It's not an ageist thing it's an individualistic trait, I have met as many mean/nastier egotistical and rude elderly people as young people. Give young people some credit. Bad people in need of 'character building' are found through all age groups.
Only difference between the young and old is the young think they know it all, the old know they know it all

I'd like a quick clarification if you don't mind as things may be a bit different on this side of the pond . When kids/teens/young adults are forced to do community work, can't they choose where and when they can do it? Here, they can do all types of work to their liking as long as they get a certificate stating the work done and the number of hours involved. If they want experience relevant to their future career, they can choose something as close to it as possible (a law student may volunteer in a center helping new immigrants with the law, for example).

Also, I don't think that wall painting or bin cleaning are too common volunteering activities here (maybe I'm wrong, but I've never done such activities as part of my volunteering).

You're right about the lazy part. Everyone seems lazy these days: parents, kids, grand-parents... We're also too self-centered and need to spend some time with others. Remember that the best thing that you can offer or give to someone is to ask him/her to help you. It boosts the morale and gives energy to accomplish more, ending the laziness So why not encourage kids to stop being lazy (we'll have to find something for the adults too, granted!)

You seem to be quite against such programs. What do you see about them that is so negative? Is it going to ruin people's lives? Is it affecting people emotionally to do community work? If you can clarify these points, maybe I'd be more inclined to see your point of view

To clarify what i am proposing (since i never did..sorry) the student may choose whatever the community service is that they wish to do. I am not saying that they have to go pick up trash or paint a wall covered in graffiti. Just do some sort of community service that they wish to do to complete the amount of hours by the time they graduate.

Ronald S. Jr. wrote in post #3312921
Nah...I'd call him happily obnoxious.

Much more astute Ron ... but only 'obnoxious' really to certain very specific types of people I am actually very polite, friendly, helpful and caring in real life as you know ... and I tip well if service is average or better. I'm sure Kathy would enjoy serving me a great deal

BaileyRenee wrote in post #3313005
To clarify what i am proposing (since i never did..sorry) the student may choose whatever the community service is that they wish to do. I am not saying that they have to go pick up trash or paint a wall covered in graffiti. Just do some sort of community service that they wish to do to complete the amount of hours by the time they graduate.

That is irrelevant given I have no choice whether to do it or not, or the choice is such that I will suffer very considerably if I refuse. So what is the point of this community service? Who is going to pay to coordinate it all? Who is going to ensure it is done? Will the be rated? what if they get half way through and get bored and bunk off? What if one of the students is a child abuser or killer? Who will check or assess before they go to the 'help' out with the little kids?

You guys must hate me by now

condyk wrote in post #3313058
So what is the point of this community service?

Introduce young people to community services. Make them feel good about themselves by helping others.

condyk wrote in post #3313058
So what is the point of this community service?

Helping the less fortunates.

condyk wrote in post #3313058
Who is going to pay to coordinate it all? Who is going to ensure it is done?

Taxpayers if high school or students and taxpayers if at college/university. They already have programs in place for volunteering activities, so only extra coordination is required at the school level to ensure that all students perform the required number of hours. The same coordinator will ensure that it is done. If it's a condition for graduation, it will be checked!

condyk wrote in post #3313058
Will the be rated?

Usually not. Certificates stating the number of hours are all that's required.

condyk wrote in post #3313058
what if they get half way through and get bored and bunk off?

It's a condition for graduation. No time, no diploma (I thought that was clear). I have a degree in engineering. In order to graduate, I had to take psychology courses and social science courses. The knowledge I gained in these courses is in no way related to my current job/research. I still had to take these courses in order to graduate. Did I complained? No! They were actually very interesting and a refreshing change compared to math and other technical courses...

condyk wrote in post #3313058
What if one of the students is a child abuser or killer? Who will check or assess before they go to the 'help' out with the little kids?

Volunteering programs involving children do have a background check involved. My wife had to go through one to help immigrant children with their school duties.

Any more questions? I'll try to answer them unless you mind

What's wrong with asking people to help out? Do you think kids should play video games all day long or should they help out with house chores? The analogy stands for community services... Are we already that much of a spoiled society?

sblais wrote in post #3313315
You guys must hate me by now
Any more questions? I'll try to answer them unless you mind

You can answer all the questions you want, i do not mind at all. And i don't hate you...you are acutally really helping me out by answering these.