LEGAL question about club photos, can you sell the images?

DwightMcCann suggested i post this queston so here it goes

I have been shooting in night clubs for over 2 years. I started my own website to shoot downtown orlando

http://www.picturethen​ight.com

and I go around to bars and clubs snap pictures of people, they come to the site and download and use the images for free.. ( make money off banners and promoting other clubs )

however i got this email yesturday:

So my question is.. do i have the rights to license these images? i took the photos but of course they are candid pics snapped in public places so i retain the right to them.. however do i need to get a sign off for every person in these images in order to sell them to a book? I wouldnt think i would have to since its public domain BUT i dont want one of them to come back and sue my butt because of it. if you guys have any insight to this situation i would love to hear back from you thanks.

JacobThe(wannabe)Photo​grapher

I told Jacob offline that I thought he should sell from his own website or a place like SmugMug or PrintRoom since I didn't think he had the right to sell these types of images to a third party without a model release. But I think it is an interesting issue and I'd like to know what you guys think.

http://www.photoattorn​ey.com

Call her and/or buy her book.

(I'm a client)

hortonsl62 wrote in post #3361869
http://www.photoattorn​ey.com

Call her and/or buy her book.

(I'm a client)

OK, I just bought her book!

There's no reason you shouldn't be allowed to sell the images, provided they're just being used as content in a book. As long as they're not planning on using the people in advertisements, you should be fine.

Would it come under editorial?

I know in Aus, nothing even near a model release is required for editorial use.
It is like the paparazzi and stuff not getting sued for naked pics of whoever or whatever in the tabloids.

Rob

For a book they should fall under the general "editorial" category that negates the need for any releases to be signed so you are free to sell the images. As long as the images aren't used to advertise the book.

I'd ship the images on CD after receiving payment and a signed licence agreement specifying that the publisher will only use the images in the specific book (use the book's title if they have one).

DwightMcCann wrote in post #3362016
OK, I just bought her book!

sweet read it and let me know what it says lol me kan't reed so well

blackshadow wrote in post #3362342
For a book they should fall under the general "editorial" category that negates the need for any releases to be signed so you are free to sell the images. As long as the images aren't used to advertise the book.

I'd ship the images on CD after receiving payment and a signed licence agreement specifying that the publisher will only use the images in the specific book (use the book's title if they have one).

nice i am liking these answers keep them coming..

I think you should send me all the photos and let me handle it!

mmmm im going to keep an eye on this thread as i do clubbing photography too.

Tell me what sort of setting are you using? just looked at ur site and you have some really nice ones there.
Chees

As I understand it, the copyright for the images is yours. So long as you have permission to use your camera in the clubs, it is up to you what you do with the images. Having permission to publish the pictures of the clubbers in the shot without a model release form is a different minefield that I have no knowledge of (sorry).

I had a similar situation regarding copyright. I take pictures at an ice hockey team's home games & was approached by an over zealous previous member of the supporters club telling me that I would be infringing copyright by publishing my images online or otherwise.

Having seeked asvice, I found that so long as I have permission from the building's owners (which I have), the copyright for my pictures is with me & I can do what I want with them. As it is, we now have an agreement where I work with the official photographer (there are in fact three of us now working as a team).

Having said all of this, I live in the UK & copyright laws in other countries may differ.

what if someone said its for editorial use but used it in a different context, can you sue their ass? would you draw up a contract for the usage of the pics too?

oh jacob, on a sub note, what was your settings for the club scene with these images? did you have a mini softbox on? nice exposures

Jacob-

This is a challenging situation. I am also a nightlife photographer who works for many local and national magazines. I have sold hundreds of performer and posed people pictures to magazines without model releases where the coverage is considered editorial. However, when client have wanted to use images commercially, I have insisted on model releases.

Some consideration should come also in the type or theme of the book. Subjects in the pictures would be more happy to be in a book called "American Nightlife" rather than "Disney World's Top Coke Whores". A fine art type of book should generate less conflict than a negative editorial or documentary book. Another consideration is that people where you verbally asked their permission are less likely to cause trouble than candid pictures.
Overall, your license to the publisher should clearly state that you have no model release for the pictures, and that you have no liability for their use of the images. On the whole, I would not say that you are immune from a lawsuit, but you should be at low risk if the subjects are portrayed in a positive way. A real lawyer might have a different opinion-it would be worth discussion.

Dan Heller has some really good information on Model Releases here:

http://www.danheller.c​om/model-release.html