mirror lock up ?

Works for me. I just use mirror lockup any time I think there might be an issue with vibration and I don't have any problems. With the medium format cameras, the vibration is visible. If you take some double-sided tape and stick a clear plastic cup of water on top of the camera, then fire the shutter, you'll start a mini-tidal wave in the cup. The shutter itself creates a fair amount of vibration. That's the main reason you have to use such huge, heavy tripods with them. Even when I'm shooting portraits I use mirror lockup. Even if it doesn't really help with whatever shutter speed I'm using, it sure doesn't hurt. The only thing about it with the 10D and cameras like that is if you forget to turn it off.....you'll try to take a hand-held shot, the camera sort of clicks and the finder blacks out....then you think "What the...." and turn it the camera around and look through the lens, touch the shutter button again and get a nice closeup of your own nostrils.

I agree. Some people are just wayyyyy too critical. So critical to the point that it is de-constructive and not constructive. Relax. Get a massage, go on vacation, loosen up.

my 2 cents.

Do you mean visible in the viewfinder or visible in the resulting image?

Can you distinguish between mirror vibration and shutter vibration?

---Bob Gross---

Visible in the cup of water if you put it on top of the (medium format) camera. The mirrors of 35mm SLRs and DSLRs don't have the mass that the mirror of a medium format camera has, so they don't create the same level of vibration. The shutter curtains and mechanism of a medium format camera also have more mass and can create approximately the same level of vibration that a 35mm or DSLR mirror can create, if they are not solidly mounted on a good, stable platform. That's why with a medium format camera on a flimsy tripod, you can still end up with vibration blur even if you use mirror lockup. You need a tripod with substantial weight and mass and a good solid head to absorb and damp the vibrations at slower shutter speeds, particularly if you are using a high magnification lens such as macro or telephoto. So...yes you can distinguish between the vibration created by the mirror and that created by the shutter. If you are using mirror lockup on a medium format camera and still have vibration related image problems, then it's a good possibility that the shutter is creating the vibration and the tripod isn't heavy enough to damp it. I've seen people get to the point of giving up on medium format because they were having such problems getting sharp images until they finally bit the bullet and put out the $500.00 to $600.00 for a good tripod and head and it solved their problems. My old Mamiya M645's were terrible. My newer M645 Pro's have better damping, but the vibration is still measurable if it's not absorbed by a heavy tripod and head. I use a Bogen 475 Tripod and 3039 Head with the medium format cameras and a Bogen 3021n tripod and 3047 head with the 35mm SLRs and DSLRs.

Bob I noticed you have some useful information sometimes. However, a bunch of your posts rip on people for putting D10 instead of the proper 10D, but anyone with the simplest knowledge of cameras knows what they mean, can't you help without ripping?

Bob is a good guy and is very knowledgeable. He is an experienced photographer. He has helped a lot of newbies on this forum. Sometimes his style is a little abrupt, and may even seem a little harsh at times. I don't really think he means for it to come across that way. And...sometimes folks are a little over-sensitive and get their feelings hurt easily.

The feeling I get is that Bob is a no-nosense kind of guy with a dry, sort of sarcastic sense of humor. Unfortunately, with that combination sometimes it comes across differently on here than was intended and because you can't hear tone of voice and see facial expressions, it is easily taken the wrong way.

I haven't seen Bob say anything that could be taken as intentionally mean or derisive toward anyone personally. I have seen him take to task some things that people post. That's OK, and in fact good. It keeps people honest and causes a second look and analysis to "facts" posted on here sometimes.

Sometimes maybe Bob simply runs out of patience, too. That's understandable. People have a tendency to post questions on here sometimes that either cannot be deciphered as to what they are asking or are so vague as to be unanswerable. We have had people come on here and essentially demand that we put together an impromptu crash course on things like "How to be a weddiing photographer", or ask a question like "What lens should I buy?" with no explanation whatsoever. These folks have invariable failed to do any homework on their own...not even a search of these forums, and in some cases didn't even bother to read stickies of whole threads on the very subject they were asking about. We are interested in answering questions on this forum and helping people. That's why it's so frustrating to get a question that cannot be answered the way it is framed, then have the person get angry with you for trying to qualify that question. A good example is a question that came up while back that was "What is a good forum for pregnant photography?". How the heck are you supposed to answer that? Then when we tried to get the person to be a little more specific, his reply was "women". See how frustrating that can be?

Anyway, I don't think he's trying to hurt anyone's feelings.

G3 sounds like he is registering for my fan club.

Often people will fail to find useful information by searching in this forum, and it is primarily because they search under "Canon D10" or some similar phrase. It is such a simple thing. If you see a model number on the front of your camera, then use that. Too many ask questions that simply can't be answered, and it seems wasteful to have to interrogate the questioner to parse the real question.

Nobody asks questions anymore about my Kodak Hawkeye.

---Bob Gross---

Naah, they actually search for Cannon D10 ...

I also have typos now and then, but I try to correct them, as much as possible. If you post a message with a lot of (unnecessary) typos, it might give the appearance that the issue was not important enough for you to take your time.

This might even be perceived as you not valueing the other people's contributions ... and that certainly can be annoying to natures more sensitive than myself. (Not that I would think Bob Gross to fall into that category )

Best regards,
Andy (assistant board curmudgeon)

Well, hey, I type fast sometimes and don't think much, so I didn't blame users (those bastards) ripping on me for typing D10. Just relax y'all, smoke some dope or crack or something whatever works for you...

Disclaimer: for those really sensitive with the lack of sense of humor, I was just kidding, though it may or may not be a good joke, but it was an attempt however, that in no way was ment to insult anyone specifically or in general.

hmm... perhaps I should put this in my signature...

Fan club? You have a fan club? I thought you were a member of the same club as me...Grumpy Old Photographers Insuring the Sustained Scolding Of Future Fellows.

I dare someone to prove this MIRROR LOCKUP stuff.


I'm sure someone has a Rebel and a 10D. Use the same lens and a tripod. Take a picture of the same subject. And set the camera up where the Mirror vibration occurs. I guarantee its not big of a deal and probably not even noticable.

Dude...there's no need to prove it. It's already been proven. Why do you think the engineers would go to the trouble to design mirror lockup features if there were no need for it? If you doubt it, either prove it yourself, or go do some searching online.

I dont have enough money to own a Rebel and a PRO DSLR to prove it myself.

But you don't need to prove it. Not just one or two, but EVERY manufacturer has produced cameras with mirror lockup for the last 40 years. They simply would not go to the expense and trouble of doing that if there weren't a need for it.

Here's the deal. If you are shooting something like high magnification macro, any vibration is magnified along with the image. Same with telephoto. That's why they invented Image Stabilization on telephoto lenses. On a normal lens, you won't notice it as much as you will with high magnification lenses. That is why you can hand-hold a camera with a normal lens at much slower shutter speeds than you can a telephoto lens. The telephoto lens is magnifying the camera shake along with the image. Mirror-slap induced vibration is exactly the same thing as camera shake from hand-holding a camera.

When the mirror flops up and slaps against the stops, it WILL vibrate the camera. The shutter fires IMMEDIATELY after the mirror flops up (notice the lack of shutter lag?). If the camera is still vibrating when the shutter fires and you are using a high magnification factor, that vibration is going to show up in your image, especially at slower shutter speeds. I know from 30 years of experience that this is true.

The idea behind the mirror lockup is simple. You compose, focus, adjust exposure, lock the mirror up, wait a couple of seconds for the vibrations to completely stop, then fire the shutter. It works, trust me.

Isnt there a little fury lining around the mirror to prevent it from hitting solid surface? I always thought thats what it was for