Motorway Incident

Richtherookie wrote in post #3415886
I also would have placed orders to block the lane, using both 2nd and 3rd due engines

2nd and 3rd due engines on a car fire? Well hell... why not call in a 4th due as the RIT team! Don't mind me.... I am feeling punchy today.

Interesting to see so much debate on the armchair quarterback front regarding the woulda, coulda, shoulda.

There were two fire tenders, one had left as the incident had been completed. There is no requirement for a 'free' lane to be left on passing an incident in the UK and anyway even if it was it's irrelevant as the incident wasn't caused by a car driving past and clipping the hard shoulder.

The metal item up the back of the fire tender is indeed a ladder.

mmm free lane! Maybe there should be though? Anyway yeah the metal item is a 13.5mtr ladder that is carried on every water tender ladder here in the UK. The Fire Service here in the UK now at least have rights under the new fire services act to close roads as the OIC of the appliance see's fit, however this can still be overruled by an officer of the law! and god help anyone who shuts down a motorway! ! ! Not that this is relevant here. It looks here that some ****wit driving in the overtaking lane has in someway or another killed an innocent Firefighter That for me is the bottom line and having been involved in an incident recently I am a bit pissed off with these dick head drivers! Some of them have no idea what it is like to be on the receiving end of **** like this!
Ricky

Yiskah wrote in post #3411031
One should get as far opposite as possible. This goes for when you see a police officer that has someone pulled over to the right- get over in the furthest left and go around. Also, for those who are reading this, I must say this: If you hear a fire engine or amulances, police cars, etc. PLEASE do NOT JUST stop right where you are (I have seen so many people do this!). Get over as far right as possible and then stop...

It angers me to no end when I see people not giving emergency vehicles the right of way. Take heed of her advice!

I agree in that I don't think you can comment on the positioning of the vehicles here. For one, you cannot see what is on the approach (it looks like a slip road to me) and it may well have been more dangerous to park a fire engine across lanes when there is two roads converging. I know that it's a strange thing to say since someone died but it does sound like the driver lost control and swerved in at quite an angle. All in all, I'm sure the firemen did the best job under those circumstances - of which we know very little.

Ok, maybe I am not seeing the whole "picture". Could somebody please explain what happened. Keeping in mind I am in agreement that the pictures are great. I would like to understand the accident better, to better myself in preventing it happening while I am on duty here in the states. Maybe a link to a story. It appears in the picture an "on ramp" is to the right and both sides have "guard rails" (sorry u.s. wording).

Sorry, this has turned into a debate.

I agree about the On Ramp/merge lane to the left.
It was a judgement call by the Pump driver.
From what I gathered the equipment on the appliance is mostly to the rear of the appliance, the fire was in the front of the vehicle, so it makes sense why the fire engine was parked ahead of the vehicle, also the road looks wet.

Regardless of the road set-up someone was killed too young in life.

There are far too many motorists driving without due care and attention to what is going on around them and the road conditions, it shows a lack of respect, also you have to remember most people aren't exposed to how dangerous it actually is on the roads until they have to change a blown tire
for the most part the exposure to high speed traffic is possibly only 20mins max, the emergency & road repair crews can spend hours on the side of the road.
I inspect bridges and there are times when we will have to close down a lane for safety so that we can try and do our job because people don't yield/giveway, all they see it as is an inconvienience to them.
we get shouted at all the time from motorists like can't you do that Sh+t at night we've had beer bottles thrown at us etc.
On really busy roads we have to inspect the bridge at night as FDOT doesn't like us to close a lane down during the day.
Then we are at the mercy of Drunk drivers and visually impaired drivers and such however we will utilize a mobile attenuator truck to offer some crash resistance.
for the most part we have hazard strobes flashers on our vehicle, Cones out etc and people still don't get over a lane, I don't think it should matter what vehicle is on the side of the road, it could be a broken down car for all I care, Be curtious and move over a lane where possible, if you can't get over a lane, then slow down.
it is certainly unnerving when a car passes you at 70mph, it is another when it is a Semi/lorry.

The biggest problem I see here in the States is Cell/Mobile phones they should be outlawed whilst driving period.
I could probably count 1 out of 5 drivers will be on their cell phone here in Florida.

These photos are part of a very unfortunate incident.
I am sure Procedures will be adjusted to try and prevent this reocurring in the future.

2 enigines for a fire call you say? Yes truck 1 is set at an angle and the 2nd due is as a barrier farther into the traffic. We close 1 lane EVERY time we have an iccodent on the expressway, fire medical or accident. Why you ask? So we never loose anyone. I'd rather wreck a $265,000 engine than hurt one of us.

By the way, i could care less that it "might" slow traffic down and God forbid some one with a smoke in one hand and a cell phone in the other might have to slow down and be 5 minutes late gettin to the bar. Everyone comes home alive.

The pictures are good and with the story they have added pathos and impact.

It does seem that I have stumbled into a new section of the forum poulated by firefighters and hindsight gurus. I am not sure how appropriate the discussion is for this particular place.

Actually, I was saying that a 2nd - and - 3rd engine on a car fire might be excessive to the extent it depletes resources in the given community. Here in Baltimore County the SOP is one engine - unless its a divided highway - and then you get two engines with the other engine to take the other side of the divided highway (because most callers screw up the direction of travel, and also just in case its in the fast lane to attack from the other side of the barrier).

In any event, as I said I was just feeling punchy. I agree 100% with all the comments on closing off lanes and apparatus positioning, etc.

neil_r wrote in post #3422092
The pictures are good and with the story they have added pathos and impact.

It does seem that I have stumbled into a new section of the forum poulated by firefighters and hindsight gurus. I am not sure how appropriate the discussion is for this particular place.

I actually am cool with the discussion here because its based on a photo story posted by a very alert photographer. Look at the interest his photographs generated. So, just my opinion that the debate is centered on the pictures. It is not some random tangent argument. FWIW...

This is a particualry tragic incident, the Watch concerned (i am told) lost two fire fighters in a fire recently.

Looking at the photos, the fire engine is clearly in the best fend off postion it can be under the circumstances.
There isn't any room for it to go anywhere other than the front of of the scene.
The driver certainly appears to have chosen a spot where he offered the most space around his machine.

To go to the rear of the scene, on what appears to be an onslip would be highly dangerous and pose a greater risk.
There is very little or nothing that can be done to combat the idiot who decides to cross lanes at speed and not be able to control his/ her vehicle.
Other than the fire fighters everyone else looks to be behind the armco.
Hard shoulder accidents are reasonably common,, the consequencies dreadful.
A very sad and tragic incident for all concerend , lets hope for a full and speedy recovery of all involved.
And RIP another fallen firefighter.

There is very little or nothing that can be done to combat the idiot who decides to cross lanes at speed and not be able to control his/ her vehicle.
Other than the fire fighters everyone else looks to be behind the armco.
Hard shoulder accidents are reasonably common,, the consequencies dreadful.

ARE YOU NUTS?????? I have said in this forum many times how to stop it. BLOCK THE ROAD. I do not care if you or anyone else is late or madder than hell for it. My job as the officer on scene is to keep the living alive PERIOD. Who i disrupt doing so is not a concern of mine. SAFETY is.

Rich,
out of interest, do you block the motorway on all incidents you attend to, for instance a broken down car that you get called to which isn't on fire and is on the hard shoulder?

I ask because on all those police, camera, action videos there seem to be lots of cases where incidents have occurred on the hard shoulder where the main motorway hasn't been closed.

IMARLOW wrote in post #3447857
Looking at the photos, the fire engine is clearly in the best fend off postion it can be under the circumstances.
There isn't any room for it to go anywhere other than the front of of the scene.
The driver certainly appears to have chosen a spot where he offered the most space around his machine.

To go to the rear of the scene, on what appears to be an onslip would be highly dangerous and pose a greater risk.
There is very little or nothing that can be done to combat the idiot who decides to cross lanes at speed and not be able to control his/ her vehicle.
Other than the fire fighters everyone else looks to be behind the armco.
Hard shoulder accidents are reasonably common,, the consequencies dreadful.
A very sad and tragic incident for all concerend , lets hope for a full and speedy recovery of all involved.
And RIP another fallen firefighter.

Sorry but you are so wrong....

If a fire truck here in the states is at a scene they block ANY chance of a motorist to impact the scene. This protects them and the citizen.

If the firetruck had blocked the traffic in the left lane and rerouted traffic coming up the on ramp it would have been impossible for a vehicle to hit them.