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Thread started 04 Jul 2007 (Wednesday) 03:57
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Deciding on tripod set-up. A two month learning process.

 
SunTsu
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Jul 04, 2007 03:57 |  #1

I can't even remember how long I've been looking for a tripod set-up, but I finally pulled the trigger today and bought both the legs and head from Really Right Stuff. It was a bit of a painful (and at times, stressful) process, but with a lot of help from people on this forum, I think I made the right decision. I'm hoping I can write a bit about my process and maybe help other POTN members save a bit of time. Here is a list of things that I looked at:

1) Budget
I have always used <$100 tripod/head combos and have consistently been unhappy. After doing a lot of reading, it became apparent that if I was to get a set-up that I would likely never have to replace, I would need to spend a LOT more than I had originally expected. My approach was more "How much do I have to spend to get X?" rather than "What can I get for $X?" so unfortunately, this post is only going to help you if you're at the point that you realize that your support is important and you are willing/able to spend $$$.
>$1,000. I'm going to put on my flame suit here, but if you really want a tripod set-up that will potentially last your lifetime AND you want cutting edge, this is how much you're going to need to spend. There's a good article somewhere that talks about how one person wasted thousands of dollars on crappy tripods before finally giving in and getting something that was worth over $1,000.

2) Legs
If you want the best, carbon fiber is it. I looked at several different brands, but in the end, everything seemed to point back to Gitzo. They are expensive, but it seems that this brand is the most recommended when price isn't an issue. There are several other brands that make carbon fiber legs, but it seems that Gitzo is the most recommended by those in the know. This is totally a subjective opinion as it only reflects what I could find out.
Are Gitzo CF legs overpriced? Probably. :)
I ended up getting the Gitzo 3530S.
Many expensive legs don't come with a tripod head, so you'll need to get one.

Gitzo leg modelling numbers:
xxxx(x)
First number represents the series. Generally speaking, the higher the number, the thicker and heavier is the tubing (at least for their CF tripods).
Third number represents the number of sections in the legs
If there is an "s" at the end of a model number, it stands for "Systematic" which is their line of "modular" tripods.

3) Legs material
Carbon fiber is the lightest, but also the most expensive. If you've got the money, go straight for CF. In addition to being light, it is argued that CF has dampening properties.

4) Number of sections in the legs
For most full size tripods, it's either going to be 3 sections or 4 sections. Some people say that 4 sections are not as stable, but I've heard this debated. 4 sections collapses to a smaller size, but I went with three sections because I figured for my full-size tripod, I wanted as few sections as possible (because of stability and set-up speed).
If you're getting a Gitzo tripod, you'll notice that each model has 4 digits. The first digit is the series, and the 3 digit is the number of sections.
i.e. 3530 has three sections and the 3540 has four sections.

5) Head
Do a search on ballheads vs. 2-way (I think that's what they are called). I won't go into it here, but the short answer is that today (it may have been diffferent before), it seems ballheads are the most popular.
Arca-Swiss standard: There is a standard which I believe was created by Arca-Swiss. They are a series of quick release products that share the same "mating". If you're going to get a ballhead, then there were really only three major brands that I came across: Arca-Swiss, Really Right Stuff (aka RRS), Kirk Enterprises, Wimberley

RRS Heads:
They have three main models: BH-25, BH-40, BH-55. Each number in the model represents that diameter of the ball as measured in mm. Obviously, the bigger, the stronger and heavier. Even if you call RRS, they won't give you firm guidelines as to which head to use for which focal lengths. Generally, I've heard that the BH-40 is good for the 70-200mm lens, but not strong enough for the 100-400mm lens. I've heard different answers on this one even from RRS though. A good rule of thumb, I would say, is to get the BH-55 if you have or plan to have any lens with a focal length of 300mm or longer.
BH-55 PCL - This is RRS' panning head. It has two places where the vertical axis can be rotated. One is above and one is below the actual ball. After speaking to RRS, I opted to not get this head because RRS recommends that it not be used as a primary head, but rather, as a temporary head when specifically doing panoramic shots. The reason I was given is that it is a complicated product, meaning it can't take bangs in general useage. I take this to mean it's not as durable as the "normal" BH-55 without the top panning surface. RRS recommended to me that I only get the BH-55PCL if all I shot was panos. I opted for the BH-55LR (lever version) and might come back and get the panning kit after (this was mostly a cost-related decision).

6) Quick release plates
The only ones that seem to be compatible with all Arca-type clamps are RRS and Wimberley.

7) Lever vs. knob
You'll have to do a search on this, but there are tons of threads on this subject. I ended up getting the lever, but I'm still not 100% convinced that one is "better" than the other.

I'll do some reviews and pictures of the tripod and head when I get them. :)


Canon 5D Mark II+BG-E6, Canon 5D+BG-E4 | 200-400mmL IS, 85mm F1.2L II, TS-E 17mm F4.0L , 16-35mm F2.8L II, 24-105mmL IS, 70-200mm [COLOR=#000000]F2.8L II IS, 100mm F2.8L Macro IS, 100mm F2.8 Macro, 40mm F2.8, 1.4x II, 2.0x III | EF12+25 II | Canon 600EX-RT (x5) | Gitzo support
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JohnJ80
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Jul 04, 2007 14:24 |  #2

Would love to see your write up on this subject. I wish more people would do that.

Here's some writeups I did and posted in my blog:

General thoughts on tripods
http://www.prophotohom​e.com …php?userid=3425​2&entry=57 (external link)

Tripod stability
http://www.prophotohom​e.com …php?userid=3425​2&entry=55 (external link)

This is easily the most misunderstood piece of equipment in a photographer's bag simply because the phenomena they are trying to control can't be seen or felt until it has impacted the image.

J.


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MDJAK
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Jul 04, 2007 19:29 |  #3

Excellent review and very well reasoned.

I too agonized before buying my first tripod. I knew all along I wanted CF and I wanted Gitzo. It became a joke between my daughter and me, as I'd go to B&H and handle the Gitzo tripods over and over again, but just didn't want to spend $500 on the one I wanted.

Well, I finally did. It was before their new 6x with the antirotation legs became available. It was a four section, 1 series tripod. It was an excellent tripod, but the locking mechanism was maddening and I didn't like four sections. Setup and takedown time was just too long.

I sold it and got the newer model, the G1157, three section. I love it.

RRS B55 was the only head I considered and I'm not sorry. It is very well made. Mine is a great traveling companion. I can place it right in my carry-on luggage. I wrap my clothes around it and have not had a problem.

Shooting with a tripod made my shots much sharper than before. There's nothing like a quality one. It is amazing how expensive they are though.

I'm thinking of getting a larger Gitzo as I do not like having to raise the center column for it to be eye height.

I look forward to more posts from you.
Thanks,
mark




  
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MDJAK
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Jul 04, 2007 19:32 |  #4

I also wish to add that I've got the quick release lever and it works flawlessly.

One other thing. With the live view of the Mark III, obviously a tripod is a must. It also shows every vibration through the lcd, especially when magnified 10x.




  
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RichNY
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Jul 04, 2007 23:24 |  #5

Agree with everything posted; the two tripods to consider today are the 3530 and 3540, and RRS and Markins are by far the best ballheads.

It should be noted that in the past there was a far more significant difference in the stability of 3 v. 4 section tripods. With the new Gitzo leg locking mechanism the 4 section tripods perform quite admirably and one doesn't pay a big penalty in performance for portability.


Nikon D3, D300, 10.5 Fisheye, 35 f/1.4, 50 f/1.4, 85 f/1.4, Zeiss 100 f/2, 105 f/2.5, 200 f/4 Micro, 200 f/2, 300 f/2.8, 14-24, 24-70, 70-200, SB-800x4, SB-900, SU-800, (3) Sunpak 120J (2) Profoto Acute 2400s,Chimera softboxes, (4)PW Multimax, (6) C-stands, (3) Bogen Superbooms, Autopoles

  
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JohnJ80
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Jul 04, 2007 23:37 |  #6

I also agree that the new Gitzo 4 sections tripods are excellent. I'd be willing to bet that there is no measurable difference between them. The new 3540LS I have is surprisingly light that it really is quite a bit of amazing stability that is very portable. I did some measuring of the relatively stability of this over my 1258 and find that it is about 2X as stable.

J.


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SunTsu
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Jul 24, 2007 17:11 |  #7

JohnJ80 wrote in post #3486458 (external link)
This is easily the most misunderstood piece of equipment in a photographer's bag simply because the phenomena they are trying to control can't be seen or felt until it has impacted the image.

J.

I totally agree with this statement. I think tripods just aren't that plain "sexy" or fun so people don't focus on them. Given the choice between a new lens and a new tripod, I think most people would choose a new lens. That said, I still think most people don't realize the importance of a good tripod. It's got to be light enough so you are happy to carry it around and it has to be stable enough to make pictures sharp. Unfortunately, that combination means $$$.

One thing to keep in mind regarding tripods and heads is that it's a one-time investment if you get a good set up. It's compatible with every lens and will work with any body you upgrade to in the future. In many ways, it's the most future-proof piece of equipment you could buy.


Canon 5D Mark II+BG-E6, Canon 5D+BG-E4 | 200-400mmL IS, 85mm F1.2L II, TS-E 17mm F4.0L , 16-35mm F2.8L II, 24-105mmL IS, 70-200mm [COLOR=#000000]F2.8L II IS, 100mm F2.8L Macro IS, 100mm F2.8 Macro, 40mm F2.8, 1.4x II, 2.0x III | EF12+25 II | Canon 600EX-RT (x5) | Gitzo support
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SunTsu
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Jul 24, 2007 17:17 |  #8

MDJAK wrote in post #3487704 (external link)
Excellent review and very well reasoned.

I too agonized before buying my first tripod. I knew all along I wanted CF and I wanted Gitzo. It became a joke between my daughter and me, as I'd go to B&H and handle the Gitzo tripods over and over again, but just didn't want to spend $500 on the one I wanted.

Well, I finally did. It was before their new 6x with the antirotation legs became available. It was a four section, 1 series tripod. It was an excellent tripod, but the locking mechanism was maddening and I didn't like four sections. Setup and takedown time was just too long.

I sold it and got the newer model, the G1157, three section. I love it.

RRS B55 was the only head I considered and I'm not sorry. It is very well made. Mine is a great traveling companion. I can place it right in my carry-on luggage. I wrap my clothes around it and have not had a problem.

Shooting with a tripod made my shots much sharper than before. There's nothing like a quality one. It is amazing how expensive they are though.

I'm thinking of getting a larger Gitzo as I do not like having to raise the center column for it to be eye height.

I look forward to more posts from you.
Thanks,
mark

Thanks Mark. :) First things first...I'm totally jealous of your Mark III!

Regarding the agonizing. I totally understand what you must have went through. When I first got my 5D, I was in the shopping cart and was just going to add a CF tripod into my basket as an accessory. When I saw the prices, I almost feinted...not understanding how an accessory could cost so much. It took me MONTHS before I could get myself to buy it, but I am totally happy I did (with the exception that my Gitzo came with a nick in the metal which totally bugs me because I spent months and hundreds of dollars agonizing on that decision - I'm sure therapy will fix it). I live in Canada so it's hard for me to exchange it with RRS, but I'm still hopeful they will find a solution for me..ok...ranting off. :)

I can't agree with you more about how much sharper my shots have become since I got this tripod. I would have never imagined how much differerence a good tripod could make (even over a cheap tripod).


Canon 5D Mark II+BG-E6, Canon 5D+BG-E4 | 200-400mmL IS, 85mm F1.2L II, TS-E 17mm F4.0L , 16-35mm F2.8L II, 24-105mmL IS, 70-200mm [COLOR=#000000]F2.8L II IS, 100mm F2.8L Macro IS, 100mm F2.8 Macro, 40mm F2.8, 1.4x II, 2.0x III | EF12+25 II | Canon 600EX-RT (x5) | Gitzo support
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JohnJ80
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Jul 24, 2007 17:43 |  #9

SunTsu wrote in post #3604368 (external link)
Thanks Mark. :) First things first...I'm totally jealous of your Mark III!

Regarding the agonizing. I totally understand what you must have went through. When I first got my 5D, I was in the shopping cart and was just going to add a CF tripod into my basket as an accessory. When I saw the prices, I almost feinted...not understanding how an accessory could cost so much. It took me MONTHS before I could get myself to buy it, but I am totally happy I did (with the exception that my Gitzo came with a nick in the metal which totally bugs me because I spent months and hundreds of dollars agonizing on that decision - I'm sure therapy will fix it). I live in Canada so it's hard for me to exchange it with RRS, but I'm still hopeful they will find a solution for me..ok...ranting off. :)

I can't agree with you more about how much sharper my shots have become since I got this tripod. I would have never imagined how much differerence a good tripod could make (even over a cheap tripod).

So true. This is one of those things where you just gotta believe, gulp and do it. The benefit it there. High quality support is really quite amazing and will make a big difference in the sharpness of your photos. If you want that "Oh, Wow" sort of feeling more often, this is part of what makes that happen.

It also makes you less tolerant of shooting without it because you learn what is possible.

Using any tripod is a hassle. The good ones just flat out work a ton better and are a ton less hassle to use. Using many of the cheap ones are just more hassle and often times the results are not great (and actually quite poor). I'm in the middle of working on a methodology to test tripods similar to what Leica does, when I tested my Gitzo tripods (1258 and 3540LS) and compared them to one of the cheapies I own, the results were so bad that I'm still not sure I believe them.

There is a huge difference in tripods but to the uninitiated, they all look like 3 sticks tied together at the top - and therein lies the problem. Often the cheapie ones have spent most of the money on great paint jobs and nice graphics so they all tend to look the same but have very significant differences in performance.

J


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Fobulous
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Jul 24, 2007 18:26 as a reply to  @ SunTsu's post |  #10

Hello, my first post one this forum ... ;)

I agonized a while for my tripod as well, ended up with the Manfrotto 055BPRO w/488RC2 ballhead ... so far I'm pretty happy with it. Definitely agree it's a worthwhile investment! Wish I could've gotten the Gitzo straight off, but will need to wait a bit. It's definitely on my wish list though.


Canon 30D | 17-85mm f/4-5.6 IS | 50mm f/1.8 II | 17-40 f/4L | 24-105 f/4L IS | 70-200 f/2.8L IS | 580EX II | Manfrotto 055PROB w/488RC2 Ballhead

  
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bungee
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Jul 24, 2007 18:42 |  #11

MDJAK wrote in post #3487704 (external link)
.........

......, the G1157, three section. I love it.

Me too. Light, stiff and strong. Great for travelling. Worth paying out for.


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jjasc
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Jul 25, 2007 13:01 as a reply to  @ bungee's post |  #12

I myself bougth a Feisol 3441 "travel" tripod (www.feisol.com (external link)). Superb superb tripod. Increadibly well made, increadibly light, and a fantastic tripod. It costed $300 USD + $33 shipping from taiwan.

It's half the cost of the Gitzo "travel" tripod, lighter, and offers a good 80% of what you get with the Gitzo at 50% the price. Yes, the gitzo is "better" if you have unlimited funds, but I can live with a tripod that offers almost as much as the Gitzo in terms of stability, functionality, and weight for half the price.

Just a thought for people who "want a gitzo but can't afford the price."

I'm writing up a review of the Feisol 3441 in a few days.


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Fobulous
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Jul 25, 2007 13:18 |  #13

jjasc wrote in post #3608986 (external link)
I myself bougth a Feisol 3441 "travel" tripod (www.feisol.com (external link)). Superb superb tripod. Increadibly well made, increadibly light, and a fantastic tripod. It costed $300 USD + $33 shipping from taiwan.

It's half the cost of the Gitzo "travel" tripod, lighter, and offers a good 80% of what you get with the Gitzo at 50% the price. Yes, the gitzo is "better" if you have unlimited funds, but I can live with a tripod that offers almost as much as the Gitzo in terms of stability, functionality, and weight for half the price.

Just a thought for people who "want a gitzo but can't afford the price."

I'm writing up a review of the Feisol 3441 in a few days.

What head did you use for the tripod?


Canon 30D | 17-85mm f/4-5.6 IS | 50mm f/1.8 II | 17-40 f/4L | 24-105 f/4L IS | 70-200 f/2.8L IS | 580EX II | Manfrotto 055PROB w/488RC2 Ballhead

  
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jjasc
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Jul 25, 2007 13:38 as a reply to  @ Fobulous's post |  #14

Acratech Ultimate Ballhead. The Feisol 3441 + short column option (addon option for tripod) + Acratech Ultimate ballhead gives the ultimate travel/hiking tripod setup, imho.

It can support 6kg, folds up to 16.9 inches WITH a ballhead attached, has a weight hook, and is very solid. The ballhead allows for rock solid stability, no creep, and unmatched range of motion, unique to the ultimate ballhead. Total weight is like 2.7 lbs!!


Canon 5D Mark 2 | Canon 17-40L | Canon 70-200L f/4 (broken) | Canon 50 f/1.8.
FLICKR Portfolio (external link) | Landscape Photography Guide (external link) | [URL="http://photograp​hyreview.org"]Photogra​phy Gear Reviews (external link)

  
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laxx
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Jul 25, 2007 14:46 |  #15

That sounds very very very interesting to me jjasc. I'm in the market for a tripod (my girlfriend gave me one that came free with their video camera and I simply can't use it) and the one you just brought up sounds great (especially the price).




  
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