Group Photo - C&C Please

I snapped a quick two pictures at a family get together, but I'm not too pleased with the results. Pose of the people aside (people were a little too loose to get in perfect poses and didn't want to take more than two), could I get some feedback on IQ/settings? For example, #2 below, is clearly OOF but #4 is sorta OK, although I used the same settings and focus program. I've been getting waay too many like #2, btw, and that's getting frustrating...

I used the on-board flash as the sun was already under the trees.

I guess considering it was spur of the moment, I did alright and nobody will complain, but I'm always looking for feedback to get better shots.

Thanks in advance.

1.

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nobody should be blocking anyone else's face. also, faces should not be in line with each other. they should be staggered nicely. the faces are the most importent part of a group photo. once the faces are all lined up properly, the rest will be easy.

What was the camera set at? Tv, Av,M,P or Auto?

"Pose of the people aside" Nobody was really interested in taking a shot, lucky I even got two chances. Also, I'm in the front row so I couldn't exactly direct the crowd behind me...

I was in Manual mode.

My main concerns are missing focus (how on earth did I do that?!) and the colors just aren't doing it for me.

ok, i fixed the alignment. but it's still not quite right. hmmmmmmmmm. I NEED MORE BEER

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Any other tips on how to get a cleaner shot (again, pose of the people aside). What do you use for the focus? Center? My ISO was only 400, but it's quite noisy. The F number is OK, no?

I would use ISO 100 or 200 in daylight. probably 100, with the flash and a diffuser, and f11 for a group so that the people on the ends aren't blurry. hope this helps!

mkuriger wrote in post #3596946
I would use ISO 100 or 200 in daylight. probably 100, with the flash and a diffuser, and f11 for a group so that the people on the ends aren't blurry. hope this helps!

I think I tried similar settings, but the shutter speed was getting awefully slow. With this wiggly group, I was afraid of getting motion blur. But, does the flash then 'stop' the action?

mrludecrs wrote in post #3597433
I think I tried similar settings, but the shutter speed was getting awefully slow. With this wiggly group, I was afraid of getting motion blur. But, does the flash then 'stop' the action?

Your comment makes me think you were in Av mode. Which meters for available light and uses the flash as a fill. That's not the way to go for most flash shots. Go into M mode, start with iso200, f8, 1/80, FEC +2/3 and most importantly ignore the light meter! You need to learn to what the flash is capable of doing, the light meter won't do you any good unless you want a fill flash on a day with good light.

What were your shot settings?. (iso, shutter speed, appeture, FEC, exposure compensation if not M or auto mode, and your shooting mode, and external flash or not) And what time of day and outdoor lighting conditions?
#1 is clearly under exposed. If you can use a focal length of 35mm or wider, you shouldn't need to go beyond f8 for a group of this arrangement. Shorter focal lengths give greater DOF. No need for f11 here.

I was in manual mode. Shot settings were as follows.

First shot:
Focal Length: 37mm
Aperture: F/7.1
Shutter speed: 1/200sec
ISA Speed: ISO-400
Exposure Program: Manual
Exposure Compensation: 0 step

Second shot:
Focal Length: 28mm **the only thing different. Maybe this explains why #2 is sharper?
Aperture: F/7.1
Shutter speed: 1/200sec
ISA Speed: ISO-400
Exposure Program: Manual
Exposure Compensation: 0 step

The shots were taken at 7:50pm, and the sun was behind trees and clouds. Also, I was using the on-board flash.

#2 might appear sharper because it had a shorter focal length which gives more DOF. But 1/200 and f7.1 is far too short a shutter speed and too small an appeture for an onboard flash.

There's a reason why auto mode and P mode default to 1/60 - it helps with the overall exposure to have a shutter speed near 1/60 than 1/200. The difference is simply about 1.5 stops more light at 1/60. 1/60 is fast enough to get sharp pictures of people trying to stand still for a camera.

Group photos are hard. Essentially, these look underexposed and out of focus to me.

My general suggestions:
1. Get that flash off camera and use at least 2-3 Flash heads for a group this large or reflectors could work with 1-2 off-camera flashes.

2. Shoot at f/8 and keep shutter at 1/60-1/100 or so if shooting 24-45mm focal length

3. Up your ISO to increase ambient light while allowing you to keep shutter speed up.

If you read what the OP did and has, he only has the on-board flash. I don't think he'll be getting 2 or 3 external flashes for a casual group photo like this.

[QUOTE=mrludecrs;35934​25]"Pose of the people aside" Nobody was really interested in taking a shot, lucky I even got two chances.

You can't put the pose of the people aside. If the pose was better, there really wouldn't be that much wrong with the shot. The light could have been perfect but the pose wrecked it. If you take control of the people, and work fast, they will do what they are told. Simply taking one of the couples (the lady who was being blocked), putting them in the front row, with the men kneeling on the edges of either side, lady with the baby in the middle would have given you a pyramid shape. The clothing color issue becomes moot if you turn the pic into b&w. Just my opinion.

No, the original post says he USED the onboard flash. He never said that was all he owned. What he did ask for was critique. I gave him honest critique. Flashes are relatively cheap, why not own a couple for casual group photos like this. If it was truly that casual and he didn't care about improving his results he wouldn't have posted it and asked for help on improving it. Straight-on flash (especially the worthless onboard flash) is never going to properly light a group like this. I don't see the harm in telling the OP this in the spirit of improving his group-photo taking skills in the future.