Faulty New Compact Flash Card and what was recovered!!!!

Hopefully someone on the forum can help and advise me on a situation I have never come across before.

I purchased a new "own branded" professional 2 gig CF card from a supposedly reputable digital media company two weeks ago, for the purpose of doing a photo assignment in a country in SE Asia, for a UK based PR company and their Tourist board.

Having arrived back in the UK late yesterday evening I tried to download the pictures off the card and found that the card was corrupted, this morning..... After the serious stress of not being able to get at the photos, which just happen to be some of the more important images I took over the week, a local photography shop did a "full" recovery and dumped them on DVD for me. (I didn't take my lap top to Malaysia with me, which I seriously regret, due to the one piece of hand luggage ruling by our wonderful UK Government, and having my full compliment of photo gear there was no room in my hand luggage!)

When I loaded the DVD there were 365 images on the disk at 1.8 gig, and these were both RAW and JPEG's. I then noticed that a hell of a lot of my images were missing plus the others were corrupted with a grey band across a lot of them and I also had 179 RAW images in perfect condition that had been taken in March of this year in Scotland, some four months before I purchased the cards. (NB. I have 1,322 pictures at about 5 gig on the other cards which are OK )

What I want to know is where do I stand with the company who sold me the supposed new CF cards, as I WILL probably lose the £350 agreed for the pictures, as I am unable to supply the PR company with their full requirements! Also, having read below, is there a chance that they would want to recoup there costs for air fares and hotel accomodation, which total around 7,700 GBP?

(I should also mention that the trip was sponsored by the Countrys Tourism Office and their national airline, so all costs plus air fares were covered, and should I have to return to complete the assignment I will probably have to pay out of my own pocket. )

Cheers for any help on this problem

Stressed of North Wales

Rob

Hi Rob, sad to hear that!

So it seems like you have a huge lot to deliver, even though you said some really important ones were on that card.

Are you sure your client would not be happy with the majority of the pics ( 1300 is quite a bunch to choose from )?

As far as I know it's not always 100 percent or ZERO... hopefully they'll understand the problem you ran into, and take the 1,3k of images....you could always charge them less, or nothing if those other photos were THAT important.

You still had your (hopefully!) free vacation / assignment
Good luck!

I would return those cards to the dealer and buy new ones from someone else!

Hi

I suspect you are unlikely to get or be able to sue the CF card supplier for the consequential losses you decribe.

Having said that if you can get a signed report form the shop that did the recovery i.e. they recovered card X serial number (it does have serial number doesn't it?) and found files dated March 2007 etc. Then clearly you can show/prove the supplier sold you returned goods, so firstly they have broken (as I understand) consumer law under the mis descriptions act (assuming it was in fact sold as "new"). In respect of its failure and bearing in mind it was apparently returned there is likely some argument for it being "unfit for purpose" etc. Talk to the Citizens Advice Bureau or a lawyer as based on the what you describe if you take them to court you may just have a case for consequential losses or the threat of court may push them to make an ex gratia payment.

Explore the legal options based on the Sale of Goods Act and the Mis-Descriptions Act (this second bit may actually be part of the firt one I mention. Oh anything you do will stand better in court if you have all the documentary evidence to support your case.

Best of luck and 'report' back once it sorted.

Floriantrojer.com wrote in post #3603257
Hi Rob, sad to hear that!


So it seems like you have a huge lot to deliver, even though you said some really important ones were on that card.

Are you sure your client would not be happy with the majority of the pics ( 1300 is quite a bunch to choose from )?

As far as I know it's not always 100 percent or ZERO... hopefully they'll understand the problem you ran into, and take the 1,3k of images....you could always charge them less, or nothing if those other photos were THAT important.

You still had your (hopefully!) free vacation / assignment
Good luck!

I should have said that a lot of the photos were "for my own use/holiday snaps" and the ones that were corrupted were of Hotels/accomodation/fa​cilities/restaurants etc over a two day period of the eight

And what a vacation but enough said on that lol

So, you were 'paid' $7,700.00 pounds to travel to a country and take pics and you didnt take your laptop? I'm guessing you didnt format the CF cards before you left nor did you test the CF cards (a dry run would have saved you) etc etc. You didnt take your laptop which means you couldn't do any backups, review your shots and go back and take any you weren't happy with.

The fault is yours. A pro wouldn't have made these simple mistakes. The first thing you should do when you get a new CF/SD/MD is format it to your camera then test it. I would hold you liable and either sue you or make you go back and get the shots (at your expense) that you were contracted for. Trying to shift the blame to the CF card company is a bit pointless. By your comments, you pretty much took the whole thing as a free holiday and let yourself down.

CSM, he couldn't take his laptop due to UK government restrictions.

Personally, I'd have taken one of those image tank type devices and backed the cards up onto that. I'd also have left the images on the cards.

Interestingly, I found images on a card were corrupted but were not corrupted on my hyperdrive.

The point is well made that cards should be formatted before use - either in the camera or in a computer.

Sure he could have. The only restriction was carry-on luggage. I keep my lenses with me and if I have to, the laptop goes in the suitcase. I like your idea about one of the small image tank devices. Either way, you need a viewing and backup option. It's just simple beginner level commonsense.

rhys wrote in post #3608236
CSM, he couldn't take his laptop due to UK government restrictions.

Personally, I'd have taken one of those image tank type devices and backed the cards up onto that. I'd also have left the images on the cards.

Interestingly, I found images on a card were corrupted but were not corrupted on my hyperdrive.

The point is well made that cards should be formatted before use - either in the camera or in a computer.

csm328 wrote in post #3608012
So, you were 'paid' $7,700.00 pounds to travel to a country and take pics and you didnt take your laptop? I'm guessing you didnt format the CF cards before you left nor did you test the CF cards (a dry run would have saved you) etc etc. You didnt take your laptop which means you couldn't do any backups, review your shots and go back and take any you weren't happy with.

The fault is yours. A pro wouldn't have made these simple mistakes. The first thing you should do when you get a new CF/SD/MD is format it to your camera then test it. I would hold you liable and either sue you or make you go back and get the shots (at your expense) that you were contracted for. Trying to shift the blame to the CF card company is a bit pointless. By your comments, you pretty much took the whole thing as a free holiday and let yourself down.

Well if I was paid that sort of money to do the job then there would have been no problem in buying a laptop out there to do the job with............. If you had read it properly I said that the costs to my sponsors, at retail prices, was that much and what I was being paid was £350.

If you think that I was going to put a $3000 dollar laptop in my check in luggage then you really are dreaming as there is a 99.9% chance it would have been nicked by the baggage handlers, and I don't believe that the US is any different from over here, and seeing that the strict rules that are in force in the UK at the moment over one piece of hand luggage, "If it doesn't fit in your carry on it aint going on"

All of the new CF cards were checked and formatted in the camera before I left and I also format every card each time I put it into the camera before taking any pictures, and this is force of habit, so don't pre judge me without having the courtesy to ask me whether I had done that in the first place.........

All pictures were checked on my PDA when I took them and not being the ideal situation I had a very good idea what I had taken and how good they were, and seeing I had purchased more than enough CF cards to do the job plus have some left over why would I need to back them up to another device, isn't a CF card a "backup device" anyway..........

I can't see how the company that sold me the cards are not at fault, they had received the card back faulty from whoever purchased it before me, and then they re-packaged it as new and sold it on, and this is a blatant act by themselves, so whatever you think, that card should not have been re-sold. I'm sure that if you had purchased something as new, such as a car, and then totalled it and then found out it was second hand and had been returned to the seller due to faulty brakes, you wouldn't be very happy either!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

MAybe for you to consider - as I know you didn't fly some low-fares airline to Malaysia, so carry-on size is not that much of a problem - you may want to buy a LowePro Computrekker for travelling.

Easily fits carry-on requirements, enough space for lenses and bodies (unless you shot that stuff with your 600 f4.....), and also a comfy compartment for the laptop.

When shooting abroad I always take my laptop in the Computrekker as carry-on, and check in the empty laptop case... works perfectly!

Floriantrojer.com wrote in post #3609451
MAybe for you to consider - as I know you didn't fly some low-fares airline to Malaysia, so carry-on size is not that much of a problem - you may want to buy a LowePro Computrekker for travelling.

Easily fits carry-on requirements, enough space for lenses and bodies (unless you shot that stuff with your 600 f4.....), and also a comfy compartment for the laptop.

When shooting abroad I always take my laptop in the Computrekker as carry-on, and check in the empty laptop case... works perfectly!

Hi Floriantrojer, I have a Lowepro 600 stealth reporter bag, and a photo trekker, but there was no way it would have fitted in the trekker. I had 2 bodies, 5 lenses, flash unit, video camera, tripod, 2x doubler, plus batteries, cleaning gear etc etc in it. It's built for a 15" laptop and mine is a 17" so the only way it would have fitted............... It wouldn't have!!!!!!!!!!!!

Rob

LOL, I did read your post...twice and the cost to the company that sent you included the cost of the airfare; therefore, you didnt have to pay for it which means it was part of the overall 'deal'.

As for taking your laptop; you could have but you chose not you. Your choice I guess.

If the cards were formatted and worked fine as you say they did then, again, it's not the fault of the CF card company. You formatted them so it's your responsibility.

And your car analogy is far from similar. With a CF card, you go download, backup, check, re-check, adjust, delete etc etc, something which you obviously failed to do correctly.

Robuk wrote in post #3609406
Well if I was paid that sort of money to do the job then there would have been no problem in buying a laptop out there to do the job with............. If you had read it properly I said that the costs to my sponsors, at retail prices, was that much and what I was being paid was £350.

If you think that I was going to put a $3000 dollar laptop in my check in luggage then you really are dreaming as there is a 99.9% chance it would have been nicked by the baggage handlers, and I don't believe that the US is any different from over here, and seeing that the strict rules that are in force in the UK at the moment over one piece of hand luggage, "If it doesn't fit in your carry on it aint going on"

All of the new CF cards were checked and formatted in the camera before I left and I also format every card each time I put it into the camera before taking any pictures, and this is force of habit, so don't pre judge me without having the courtesy to ask me whether I had done that in the first place.........

All pictures were checked on my PDA when I took them and not being the ideal situation I had a very good idea what I had taken and how good they were, and seeing I had purchased more than enough CF cards to do the job plus have some left over why would I need to back them up to another device, isn't a CF card a "backup device" anyway..........

I can't see how the company that sold me the cards are not at fault, they had received the card back faulty from whoever purchased it before me, and then they re-packaged it as new and sold it on, and this is a blatant act by themselves, so whatever you think, that card should not have been re-sold. I'm sure that if you had purchased something as new, such as a car, and then totalled it and then found out it was second hand and had been returned to the seller due to faulty brakes, you wouldn't be very happy either!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Why would you have a 17" laptop with a 15" capable Lowepro? Maybe a $200.00 investment to buy the correct camera bag would have avoided this whole thing. It really sounds like you shouldn't have taken the job. You're not correctly kitted out to travel with everything you need. It's a tough lesson I guess and a good reminder for all of us that travel with our gear to be well prepared and never assume.

Robuk wrote in post #3609586
Hi Floriantrojer, I have a Lowepro 600 stealth reporter bag, and a photo trekker, but there was no way it would have fitted in the trekker. I had 2 bodies, 5 lenses, flash unit, video camera, tripod, 2x doubler, plus batteries, cleaning gear etc etc in it. It's built for a 15" laptop and mine is a 17" so the only way it would have fitted............... It wouldn't have!!!!!!!!!!!!

Rob

But is a camera actually performing a "real" format? Isn't it just writing a root directory and an allocation table, and assuming that all sectors on the disk is correct? Really formatting a CF would require the camera to write a test pattern to every single sector and then read back that pattern. A 4GB card with 20MB/s write speed 3 min 20 seconds to just write data - then it must be read back again.

When buying a new card, it really doesn't hurt to perform a real formatting in a PC to verify that the card is working. Then - if don't trust the PC to generate a file system the camera likes - you may ask the camera to format it again.

By the way - for maximum recoverabillity, it is important to never erase individual pictures in the camera and then continue to add more pictures. Since pictures are not of a fixed size, erasing of images generates holes that may not be large enough to hold new images. The result is that the data becomes fragmented, where parts of an image are stored at one position, and parts on a different position. No problem as long as the card doesn't fail, and the camera doesn't do something silly. But if a recovery is needed, and the allocation table sectors are broken, it is very hard to recover fragmented files.

Always erase all files and directories from a card - or perform a quick-format - before reusing a card.

Robuk wrote in post #3609406
All pictures were checked on my PDA when I took them and not being the ideal situation I had a very good idea what I had taken and how good they were, and seeing I had purchased more than enough CF cards to do the job plus have some left over why would I need to back them up to another device, isn't a CF card a "backup device" anyway..........

No, a CF card is a "backup device" if it stores a redundant copy of something you care about. If it stores the only copy, then the CF card is your "original". The question to ask is then how many $ or £ or € or whatever to be trusted to a single CF card without keeping a backup.

If I had been in that situation, I might even have been paranoid enough to post a copy of the images to myself so that a mugging or other incident hadn't robbed me of my material. That is one of the reasons why there are cheap CD writers that can transfer images directly from a card to a CD-R. Easy to produce backups. Easy to mail backup copies.

The only thing the company did wrong was sending out a returned card - since it contained pictures they can not have performed a full format of it to verify that it worked before they sent it to you.

This is a case where it is important to have a business insurance that can cover accidents or mistakes or similar that can result in your customer sueing you.