Does the subject in macro shot need to be entirely in focus?

I just showed some of my pictures in 4x6 form of some of my best shots to the professional photographer that rents the third floor of my house.

He basically said that my photos are bad because the entire subject is not in focus. He shoots wildlife professionally, so I was amazed how he's apparently a macro expert too.

He then went on to say how his shots are so amazing, that you can count all the segments of a fly's eye in his pictures. Mind you I only have a Canon Pro1 and I don't go for the extreme close ups, but the detail is there if you enlarged them.

I'm really disappointed because granted it's only been 2 weeks since I started shooting I felt I had improved considerably and that my shots weren't all that bad.

I gave my step sister who came to visit an 8x10 print of a dragonfly I shot. I thought it was a good shot, but apparently according to a pro it is quite poor.

Here's the photo.

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Don't hang your head, learn from him! He sounds like a great resource of critique and help.
Your image COULD have been very good but very little of it is in sharp focus.
There is much to learn, enjoy the journey.

Its only been 2 weeks?!?! Heck, I think this is good work for someone just getting started.

Stop putting yourself down and stop comparing yourself to some ol' coot that's been doing it since you were wet behind the ears and just get out there and practice more.

If you feel that you are improving - YOU ARE!

Continue shooting, set yourself some goals to achieve, and before long you'll be right there with the "professional".

Thanks guys. I guess its just more motivation to get better and show him how good my photos can be.

I guess the way he said it was really discouraging. I've been working hard to get better these past couple weeks, he could at least said my photos were 'nice' or 'good start' instead of going "meh, that one is soso... I don't like that one...", I had to ask for him to tell me why they weren't good. At least I made the most of it by asking.

Good for you! Nail him down for C&C. Nothing wrong with learning but if all anyone can say is "not enough" and they do not explain then they are not very helpful, are they.

Well, always outspoken, I'll weigh in on the discussion. There are only 2 ways you're going to get either all, or most, of the subject in focus:

1. Go for a lower magnification and crop
2. Image stacking like LordV and others on here do

I'll add a 3rd option just for fun - break the laws of physics.

DOF will always be limited the closer you are to the subject (which means higher magnification). There is NO way to avoid this.

What I do suspect the photographer is referring to is paralleling the subject, so that the entire length is in the focal plane. With your dragonfly shot, the tail is OOF, because you were not parallel to it. Personally, I don't think it a biggie, and I suspect many others here wouldn't either. Side on, parallel shots become boring after a while. I find either head on, or 3/4 shots are much nicer as a rule. With these types of shots, unless you use either of my aforementioned 2 points, or break the laws of physics, you're going to end up with most of the insect OOF. As an example, at 1:1, f11, you probably have a DOF zone of no more than 5mm or so at a very rough guess. Yes, 5mm. Sure, you can open up your aperture to something like f32 to get greater DOF. but you'll lose resolution and details in the image, highly desirable for a high quality image, especially if you want to sell it.

I'd have been ecstatic to have:

1. photographed a Dragonfly so early on in my macrophotography addiction
2. Done such a good job

You're doing fine.

My honest advice: ignore the "professional" because in all honesty, from what you've posted, he doesn't really sound that great to me. If you have a link to his work, I'd love to rudely critique his efforts.

Dave

what a dick, dont worry thats a good shot. not "PRO" as that guy would say but its hella good for two weeks.

ask him to show some work and pick at it like no other pointing out flaws, thatl probly make him think twice.

Dave (Dpastern) has some very sound advice.

Your shot isn't bad at all. Would it be better if the rest of the dragonfly was in focus? It really comes down to personal taste. I think the colorful background rocks! Would I like to see a little more of the dragonfly in the focal plane? I would... does it kill the photo for me? Nope! You do have a little green colorcast going on in the shot... a minor levels adjustment will remove it. Can you share your settings for the shot... no Exif data in the photo

As Dave mentioned... not every shot has to be at a right angle to the camera... I try to shoot crazy angles at times to just break things up and give different perspectives ... this little wasp for instance... I shot all the 90/right angle shots I wanted ...so... why not change it up.

Thank you all for your comments.

I personally prefer having an interesting shot angle even if it means having part of the insect out of focus. I prefer having a shot that's interesting and makes you look twice than having a shot you've seen a hundred times before. I shoot for myself, but I also want to improve as a photographer and take shots even 'pros' will consider great. I know it won't happen overnight, but I know if I keep applying myself and learning, I can make it happen.

Hatch,
I love your shot because it's unlike any I've seen and really made me look. I think photography is more than just an image in focus, but rather about creating some sort of feeling in the person viewing the photo. That's what makes a photo memorable.

Here's the Exif:


Color Space=sRGB
Image Width(pixels)=2272
Image Length(pixels)=1704
X Resolution=180.0
Y Resolution=180.0
Resolution Unit=dot/inch
Scene Capture Type=Standard
Exposure Mode=Auto Exposure
Shutter Speed Value=1/250 Second
Aperture Value=4.00
Flash=Off
ISO Speed Rating=

The only things I'm playing around with right now when taking photos is exposure, manual focus, and white balance. I'm still learning how to properly adjust shutter speeds, aperature settings and ISO ratings.

Dave,
Image stacking is something I want to try once I nail down the basics.

The pro upstairs shoots with a film SLR. I couldn't find anything of his online, but some of his wildlife photos are pretty amazing. I've never seen any of his macro work, nor did I know that he shot macro. He does like to brag and boast whenever he gets the chance about his work though (or his Pontiac Sunfire lol).

I'm With Dave P on this one- Your Pro does not know what he is talking about. According to him all dragonfly pics would have to be exactly side on to get the whole body and head in focus. The only rule in macro is normally to get the eyes in focus and you have done that. Excellent shot for a macro beginner BTW

Hate to think what he would make of this damselfly shot (which I at least like)

Brian V.

a couple of my samples

Don't seek input from mean people twice.

You have persistence and patience to get that shot -- Bravo!

For two weeks of trying, that shot is pretty damned good. I think it's just sour grapes on the part of the "professional" that someone with a compact can actually achieve respectable results. If I were that pro, I would have certainly suggested ways and means of improving on it, and one thing that sticks out from your exif data is that your aperture is only F4. With a shutter speed of 1/250, you could probably have sacrificed a little of that to get the aperture up and improve your depth of field. How much you can safely stop down to and still keep the subject sharp depends on whether your subject is moving, whether you're using flash, and how steady you can hold the camera. Dragonflies at rest barely move at all except their heads so that leaves your steadiness and whether you decide to use flash. Many people use a tripod, but I find them restrictive out in the wild, but I'm always on the lookout for shots where I can steady myself, either by propping myself up against something, or by getting down and resting my elbows on my knees. Use of flash is another chapter, and is one which you can only learn by doing. One thing is for sure, you're not going to learn what you can get away with in a couple of weeks, either for your own technique, or the habits of the subjects you photograph, but it's great fun finding out.

Hi Pete its a great shot of the Dragonfly
depth of field is always tricky with these I tend to take one shot paralell so all is in focus as a "record" of a new dragonfly but the nicest shots are like you have done at an angle
I would be very happy with that shot
Pete

Thanks all again.

LordV - great shot, he looks like an alien.
dmwphoto - nice shots. I like both, but the first one is really cool.

Last night I got out at 8pm and went out with my external flash looking for bugs... too bad they're most asleep and all I could find is a few flies.

I did get a few learning shots. I made a diffuser out of a rolled piece of paper that would allow the light to flash down on my subject. I played with the settings on the flash and camera to get the proper exposure and lighting of my subjects. I just thought I've been putting off this flash thing for long enough and I need to learn how to use it to get those better shots.

Today is a gray cloudy day. The perfect day to take what I learned from last night and try to apply it to todays shooting.

I'll post my first macro with flash later today.