Highlight Tone Priority - 40D - Mark II - ?'s

Well I've been amazed by this since the press release on RG's site and it does make an outstanding difference in the pictures. I'm just tossing around some questions and doing some serious thinking...

Why would you ever turn it off? Greater highlight detail would be something everyone would want (assuming), and if you wanted more shadows wouldn't you just adjust levels in post? Doesn't this in turn expand the dynamic range?

I'm just looking at the press release for the 40D, looking at my Mark II, looking at the press release, looking at my Mark II... I gotta admit, on paper the 40D looks impressive and with this feature it's even more appealing.

I wonder if the 40D will damage the used market for 1 series cameras at all? Why spend 900 on a 1D classic when the 40D might outperform it?

If the highlight priority mode works in the same way as it does on the MKIII then the downside is increased shadow noise so you would probably only want to switch it on when you needed it.

Mr. Clean wrote in post #3760759
I wonder if the 40D will damage the used market for 1 series cameras at all? Why spend 900 on a 1D classic when the 40D might outperform it?

It's a very good point and I don't know the answer, for me at least it all depends on the AF performance of the 40D. If the AF performance is on a par with the MkII and MkIIN then it starts to make them look a bit redundant doesn't it?

It doesn't expand DR, no. The DR of the captured image is limited to the sensitivity of the sensor. It is then also limited to image formats that have less tonal range then the processed image. So jpeg has less tonal range then RAW: which is keeping the DR of the sensor.

At least from what I've seen, Highlight priority is not much different then adjusting your exposure in a traditional 12bpc system. Until we see tests on the MarkIII and 40D's DR, there's no way of knowing if the 40D has a more sensitive sensor then the 30D.

And as far as it besting a 1D.....well you could argue that many current models of Canons have better features then the old 1D. The 1D still has its fans, though.

Mr. Clean wrote in post #3760759
I wonder if the 40D will damage the used market for 1 series cameras at all? Why spend 900 on a 1D classic when the 40D might outperform it?

I don’t think Canon cares even a little about the used camera market. And if they can put out something to convince all the folks holding on to older hardware they would in a moment and without hesitation.

nitsch wrote in post #3760816
It's a very good point and I don't know the answer, for me at least it all depends on the AF performance of the 40D. If the AF performance is on a par with the MkII and MkIIN then it starts to make them look a bit redundant doesn't it?

I know... you'd have better build and better burst and a 'different' control of DOF in a 1 series...

davesrose wrote in post #3760834
It doesn't expand DR, no. The DR of the captured image is limited to the sensitivity of the sensor. It is then also limited to image formats that have less tonal range then the processed image. So jpeg has less tonal range then RAW: which is keeping the DR of the sensor.

At least from what I've seen, Highlight priority is not much different then adjusting your exposure in a traditional 12bpc system. Until we see tests on the MarkIII and 40D's DR, there's no way of knowing if the 40D has a more sensitive sensor then the 30D.

And as far as it besting a 1D.....well you could argue that many current models of Canons have better features then the old 1D. The 1D still has its fans, though.

RG's site says that you can't post process an image with Highlight Priority OFF to make it look like a Highlight Priority ON shot...

I am one of those 1D fans too that's for sure. The 1Dino is still an excellent camera.
On the other hand, I'm wondering how the AF compares on the 40D to the 1D/1DmarkII/1dmarkIIn. If it's on par then...Sheesh...1D Mark II for sale? Especially at a 6.5 FPS burst rate? Sure not the 8.5 but time your shots and take the extra saved money and go buy your <insert dream lens here>

Mr. Clean wrote in post #3760878
RG's site says that you can't post process an image with Highlight Priority OFF to make it look like a Highlight Priority ON shot...

At least the few shots I've seen with the 40D haven't looked like they're inherently greater DR. To me, it seems that maybe it just means less fiddling with your tonal range in PP if you have a HDR scene (though I do hope that Canon's next generation cameras are indeed getting more sensitive and being able to increase DR).

Mr. Clean wrote in post #3760878
If it's on par then...Sheesh...1D Mark II for sale? Especially at a 6.5 FPS burst rate? Sure not the 8.5 but time your shots and take the extra saved money and go buy your <insert dream lens here>

Well if you get a used 1D, you get the status of a 1D body owner, and you get the 45 AF points. Personally, I'm a FF person who doesn't need fps: so nothing beats my 5D. Well until the 5D mkII comes out

[QUOTE=davesrose;37608​34]It doesn't expand DR, no. The DR of the captured image is limited to the sensitivity of the sensor. It is then also limited to image formats that have less tonal range then the processed image. So jpeg has less tonal range then RAW: which is keeping the DR of the sensor.

At least from what I've seen, Highlight priority is not much different then adjusting your exposure in a traditional 12bpc system. Until we see tests on the MarkIII and 40D's DR, there's no way of knowing if the 40D has a more sensitive sensor then the 30D.
quote]

Well I agree that you can't change the DR of the sensor, but Highlight Priority doesn't just change the exposure settings. From the times I've tried it, it appears to fix blown highlights WITHOUT lowering the overall exposure. I have tried this mostly on shots with cloudy skies and it seems to work like a charm. With it off, I get a lot of blown clouds. With it on, I get detail in the clouds. In both cases the rest of the scene seems to be largely unchanged exposure-wise.

The other downside to highlight tone priority is buffer size.. I guess the CPU overhead takes a tole and when it's on your available frames in the buffer drop significantly.

it is easy to tell how the HLTP mode works. the camera is taking a photo 2 stop underexposed at ISO50, thus preserving the highlight details, and then push it 2 stops in software. now we have a final image that has the highlight preserved (thanks also to the 14bit RAW files) and also we are limited to ISO200.

so what have been said is correct, the DR never changes. it just got shifted. and also as a result, there are more shadow noise from pushing 2 stops.

Does HTP only work with RAW or is it available to JPG's as well?