"Pro Wanna-be" Interesting discussion on FM...

DAVIDJAY wrote in post #3858129
Here's my response.

Most of us would rather exist in a world where the competition is cordial, rather than cut-throat, but if you don't view other photographers as competitors then you don't understand capitalism either.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I think the current business model of wedding photographers acknowledges that you can get over 50% of your referrals from other photographers. Although other photographers are your "competitors," they are more likely business partners. I think that's why photographers don't view other photographers as competitors.

Afterall, if you're booked that day, you're booked. Why not refer the client to another photographer?

DAVIDJAY wrote in post #3858129
I think it's really sad that they would publish something like this....calling newcomers "wannabes" and claiming they are "stealing" weddings.

Here's my response.
I've already written to them and I'd encourage you to do the same.

Respect!!! Great reply DJ.

Hi David - nice seeing you again. I read your reply to the article which I thought was quite interesting. I partially disagree with one of your points though:

Your article not only implies that we (photographers) are competitors, which I don't believe we are, but it also encourages negativity towards newcomers. Many of us have worked hard to rid the industry of these attitudes and beliefs and publishing things like this takes us a step backwards.

I agree that many of us attempt to mentor newcomers and do what we can to foster cordiality in the industry. I'm a firm believer in that. The older I get the more I see the importance of giving back to the community either through community volunteer activities, teaching, or just straight out donations.

But to say that we are NOT competitors is really naive. Now, here on POTN we are not because we generally do not live in the same locales. So we are happy to share our secrets and tips.

But in my own neighborhood I am surrounded by competitors or looking for a piece of the pay. We are certainly friendly and cordial to each other, and even assist each other in a jam, but will are still competing against each other for the same pool of customers. That's capitalism and the free market place - I really don't understand how you can say otherwise.

DAVIDJAY wrote in post #3858129
I think it's really sad that they would publish something like this....calling newcomers "wannabes" and claiming they are "stealing" weddings.

Here's my response.
I've already written to them and I'd encourage you to do the same.

As in any other industry, I do regard other photographers as competitors. But just to clarify my earlier opinions, I view many of them as friends and possible business partners, and at least a couple of times a month refer overflow customers to them if I can't take the contract.

The above pays off for me because I constantly get referrals back from other photographers in the area to whom I make referrals.

randplaty wrote in post #3858436
Correct me if I am wrong, but I think the current business model of wedding photographers acknowledges that you can get over 50% of your referrals from other photographers. Although other photographers are your "competitors," they are more likely business partners. I think that's why photographers don't view other photographers as competitors.

Afterall, if you're booked that day, you're booked. Why not refer the client to another photographer?

Great link and the opinions are wide to boot. I even put this on my new blog.

The article has been written to get the site hits, I mean how many here have just gone to it. The advertisers on that site pay per hit........

Any pro (not just photogs) that demands respect is up themselves

The whole article has been written to get reaction from Pro's and Amateurs trying to break into the wedding business and hopefully become Pro..

PeterUK300 wrote in post #3858573
The article has been written to get the site hits, I mean how many here have just gone to it. The advertisers on that site pay per hit........

Any pro (not just photogs) that demands respect is up themselves

The whole article has been written to get reaction from Pro's and Amateurs trying to break into the wedding business and hopefully become Pro..

Excellent insight. I almost feel like I've been had.

cosworth wrote in post #3858600
Excellent insight. I almost feel like I've been had.

Well it just make ya mad Probably find they were not getting many hits this month

It will be Sport photogs next month.....

"Are you a Pro Sports photog fed up with wannabe Pro Sport photogs nicking ya work"

Gold.

im actually kind of amused with the article.
how, and where do they expect new comers to start at or from?
i think that if a photographer has a nice fresh portfolio, and has done a good job with his other clients, then why not go to him/her?
im not the only person on the planet who has been unhappy with wedding pictures. i wish i would have known more about it back when i got married to make a better decision.
but the article kinda says that because wanna be's charge less, that the quality of work is less. i totally disagree with that.
i have seen people who shot some really beautiful wedding pictures for about 500 dollars. the photos were fun, fresh, bright, and captured all of those moments that we want to remember as brides.
i feel that a lot of pros who have been around for years. if not decades, can kinda be a little bit generic, and a little too typical.
i think the new guys have a lot to offer, and competition is good.
im in no way, shape or form a pro. im just someone with a camera who wants really nice photos of family, friends, and places.
but if i had to chose. i wouldn't chose the pro just because hes a pro. im going to chose the one who i feel is going to give me what i want, and be able to capture my memories for me. ( any bride knows how hectic wedding day can be)
and if we have faith in the photographer to give us what we want. then that is one less thing to worry about on wedding day.
thats just my out look. i know its more of a customer point of view, and not so much as a photographer. but thats just how i look at it.

Nah - don't feel bad Jason, I read the article too . I won't be writing any letters to the editor though.... don't see any point in it. I rather spend my time asking and answering questions here; a more productive use of my time and more gratifying .

cosworth wrote in post #3858600
Excellent insight. I almost feel like I've been had.

Curtis N wrote in post #3858201
but if you don't view other photographers as competitors then you don't understand capitalism either.

sapearl wrote in post #3858508
But to say that we are NOT competitors is really naive.

So those of that think I don't understand capitalism or that I'm naive so be it. The reality is in an industry with an abundance of work (over half of the weddings not being photographed at all) other photographers aren't the real competition - the consumer is. Our real competition is the idea that consumers have that wedding photography isn't something that they need.

Here's a video I shot in Paris a month or so ago because this competition mindset is very heavy out there but they're catching on and understanding that it's the wrong way to think about it.

Cheers to you guys!
DJ

FTR - I'm pro newbie (read "for"). I used to be one, heck some think I am one still I bet.

‘A new photographer who is targeting the budget bride makes life easy for me. It weeds out the budget brides coming to me and secondly, the nearly budget brides who are looking to save money look at the new photographer’s work and see the blown out skies, oversharpening etc. and realize that getting a skilled photographer does cost money. I think “wannabes” are good for my business.’

Well David, that's Paris and I'm talking about the U.S. market where I live and work. That is my particular reality.

I advertise in a couple of local trade publications for my services - right next to the other guys down the street who are putting their shingles in front of the same customers.

And those same customers make the round of phone calls when it comes to their weddings, anniversaries and other social events. We hear it because they tell us. True, it is up to us to educate them as best we can. And if the other guy offers better product and service at the same price, then we have to sharpen our talents and abilities a bit more.

DAVIDJAY wrote in post #3858677
So those of that think I don't understand capitalism or that I'm naive so be it. The reality is in an industry with an abundance of work (over half of the weddings not being photographed at all) other photographers aren't the real competition - the consumer is. Our real competition is the idea that consumers have that wedding photography isn't something that they need.

Here's a video I shot in Paris a month or so ago because this competition mindset is very heavy out there but they're catching on and understanding that it's the wrong way to think about it.

Cheers to you guys!
DJ