"Pro Wanna-be" Interesting discussion on FM...

Regardless of the competition bit - I hope we all agree that calling newcomers "wannabes" and thiefs out "stealing" weddings is a poor choice for this writer to make.

My advice to you Stuart is to get away from selling products and services b/c like you've found those can both be commoditized. SELL YOURSELF - That's the only thing that will always be truly unique.

YOUR Eye YOUR vision YOUR experience. Are my pictures that much better than everyones - NOPE! So why can I charge so much more without ever advertising, without ever going to a bridal show, without ever even having a sample wedding album to show anybody? It's because I've learned to sell myself.

Best of luck to you,
DJ

Thanks DJ - will do... and agreed that it does nothing to refer to others as thieves and wannabes. As for the selling, I've been promoting and selling myself for 3+ decades. The only fly in the ointment there is a regular full time job prevents me from promoting myself all the time.

Perhaps you don't feel photographers compete because you have little competition yourself, and you view it from that perspective?

You successfully market an expensive and fun experience to the high end bride in a fairly niche market. And you do it quite well which is a credit to your abilities. But THAT niche and market does NOT describe where most POTN wedding fotogs operate. We don't travel the world for our work, tending to work in our own neighborhoods and cities.

But I can certainly understand how you would view it differently because of the type of client you can afford to pursue. In contrast, many of us fall in that $1K-3K range which is far below what you charge. So we tend to see things a little bit differently.

As I have said before, most of the people in my area can't afford "experience." They want substantive product for their hard earned money. But I tip my hat to you that you can pull it off - kudos .

DAVIDJAY wrote in post #3858854
Regardless of the competition bit - I hope we all agree that calling newcomers "wannabes" and thiefs out "stealing" weddings is a poor choice for this writer to make.

My advice to you Stuart is to get away from selling products and services b/c like you've found those can both be commoditized. SELL YOURSELF - That's the only thing that will always be truly unique.

YOUR Eye YOUR vision YOUR experience. Are my pictures that much better than everyones - NOPE! So why can I charge so much more without ever advertising, without ever going to a bridal show, without ever even having a sample wedding album to show anybody? It's because I've learned to sell myself.

Best of luck to you,
DJ

DAVIDJAY wrote in post #3858854
Regardless of the competition bit - I hope we all agree that calling newcomers "wannabes" and thiefs out "stealing" weddings is a poor choice for this writer to make.

My advice to you Stuart is to get away from selling products and services b/c like you've found those can both be commoditized. SELL YOURSELF - That's the only thing that will always be truly unique.

YOUR Eye YOUR vision YOUR experience. Are my pictures that much better than everyones - NOPE! So why can I charge so much more without ever advertising, without ever going to a bridal show, without ever even having a sample wedding album to show anybody? It's because I've learned to sell myself.

Best of luck to you,
DJ

It's easy to say that from a hotel in Paris, France paid for by the B&G.

In the real world, there is competition. And price wars. And selling "an experience" sounds pretentious to the everyman.

The submit script for the article has been disabled. The response bounces back now. Maybe it generated too much interest for them

It may sound pretentious, but we ARE (or should be) selling an experience. Most of my selling goes on during the wedding I am currently shooting. Guests that are on the lookout for a photographer see how I work and interact and enjoy myself (prompting the folks in front of the camera to enjoy themselves), and they want that on their wedding day.

As for the competition...that's an interesting conversation. I have spent quite a bit of time making friends with my competition. We bounce ideas off each other, go out drinking together, shoot together, share dirty jokes, and (most importantly), share our referrals. I booked about 1/3 of the weddings I shot this year off of referrals from my competition. Recently two of my competitors were featured in a newspaper article for a shoot that I set up and that I originated the concept for. I invited them along to the shoot, and the newspaper took notice. So how is that good for me? As their name gets out there and the inquiries start to fly in, I am going to get the overflow...i.e. my booking are going to pick up as well. Had I kept the shoot to myself, perhaps no one would have noticed and the potential for future sales from the shoot would have been non-existent. So I can see DJ is coming from - we are more powerful as allies than as competitors.

jamiewexler wrote in post #3859323
It may sound pretentious, but we ARE (or should be) selling an experience. Most of my selling goes on during the wedding I am currently shooting. Guests that are on the lookout for a photographer see how I work and interact and enjoy myself (prompting the folks in front of the camera to enjoy themselves), and they want that on their wedding day.

I've said this a million times. Act professional, be professional. When your people skill son on display and you are walking people through the process, explaining what your doing to get the best shot, making them feel right and making the nervous ones calm - people notice.

Everyone can take a good pictures with some training. Not everyone learns to work with groups of people and self promotion.

Sometimes good pictures become great pictures when clinets understadn the process of getting there and making feel that they were part of a "production". I wouldn't call it selling an "experience" per se, but I would call it selling yourself. If you are fun to shoot with then you will get work.

Best thing I EVER did was work as a shooter in a Club Med. It cost me in some respects, but long term it taught me to work with people at a whole different level. How do you think I had to overcome everyone's P&S camera on the beach and subsequent objections?

If you're a photographer with access to a high end market, you can sell the experience. If you're a photographer in a rural market where everyone works their ass off for little money, you're going to have to emphasize the end product...the images, the albums, etc. In my area at least, it's a commodity. I don't want it to be. But I have yet to break the $1500 barrier. I get negotiators on a regular basis. If I was selling the experience, my photographs would be good enough to get a higher pay rate. But that's not how it's viewed here. It's viewed as "Hey these photos are nice, but so and so does similar work for less money. Can you match that?"

Tell me to move out of my area and change my market. Fine. Right. Easy said. Not easy done. If you're near Boston, LA, NYC, etc you're going to be able to do it. You'll get to know people in high places who know people in high places. The connections I can make around here would get me free PA state vehicle inspections at best because the cousin of the bride has a garage. They don't get me destination weddings in the Caribbean.

It's a completely different market.

Some people are bashing me for trying Bella. Well on Saturday I got my business cards in the hands of people who all came from the Alexandria VA area, and one from Canada, as well as the event coordinator of the Links. So maybe I'll be able to sell experience soon. But it takes work and a change of market. Not everyone can change their market and have to work within the limitations.

Besides, not everyone even desires to sell $10,000 packages. I don't think I would. I'd feel I was ripping people off.

I'm a nice guy and people like shooting with me but I do get tired of the "sell the experience" cliche spouted by high end photographers constantly hawking their wares in the form of DVDs and Photoshop Actions.

Than in your case, Don, sell the DVD!

As for ripping people off with a $10,000 package... You're only ripping folks off if they feel ripped off!

Every day thousands (maybe millions) of people pay $5 for a cup of coffee at Starbucks...

jamiewexler wrote in post #3859446
Than in your case, Don, sell the DVD!

As for ripping people off with a $10,000 package... You're only ripping folks off if they feel ripped off!

Every day thousands (maybe millions) of people pay $5 for a cup of coffee at Starbucks...

Nah I'd just feel sick to my stomach if I charged that much. I couldn't live with myself. I will, however, try jacking up my rates if Bella takes off and I have more of those to show...nowhere near $10K though. That's just insane.

CDI you said it far better, and in fewer words than I did . And in my neck of the woods pretentious = b.s. to the regular working stiff.

cdifoto wrote in post #3859240
It's easy to say that from a hotel in Paris, France paid for by the B&G.

In the real world, there is competition. And price wars. And selling "an experience" sounds pretentious to the everyman.

sapearl wrote in post #3859465
And in my neck of the woods pretentious = b.s. to the regular working stiff.

Our trees are strikingly similar...

cdifoto wrote in post #3859393
I'm a nice guy and people like shooting with me but I do get tired of the "sell the experience" cliche spouted by high end photographers constantly hawking their wares in the form of DVDs and Photoshop Actions.

Or seminars

https://photography-on-the.net …p?t=371865&high​light=come

I should shoot some $300 weddings, tell everyone I actually got $15,000 each for 'em, and then start charging insane entrance fees to hear me B.S.

I'd have to hire a speech writer though cuz I can't B.S. very well on my own.

cdifoto wrote in post #3859516
I can't B.S. very well on my own.

I do not agree with this statement.

cosworth wrote in post #3859524
I do not agree with this statement.

It may not be me typing this right now....

...or any other of my random crap posts!