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Thread started 04 Sep 2007 (Tuesday) 18:03
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Moving from EOS 3 (film) to EOS 40D - will I be disappointed?

 
tonybear007
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Sep 04, 2007 18:03 |  #1

I have finally decided to jump into the digital world but I am nervous. If money was not an issue I would go for a full frame 1 Ds.

My budget will only allow me to move to the EOS 40D. My 24-70mm lens will effectively be 38-112mm. Not thrilled.

My 70-200mm will now be 112-320mm. I'll take that any day.

Is the AF faster on the 40D?

Is the viewfinder smaller and less bright on the 40D?

Will I get better color saturation and increased tonal range with the 40D?

What am I to expect realistically?


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Billginthekeys
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Sep 04, 2007 18:56 |  #2

i would think a 5D would be a much better choice if you are looking for a digital equivalent of the EOS 3, but dont want to spend money for the 1series. of your various questions i can tell you for sure that the 40D's viewfinder will not be as large and bright as a full frame film camera, have to get the 5D or 1series for that.


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sctuk99
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Sep 04, 2007 19:06 |  #3

You might get "a perceived extra reach" with your 70-200 tonybear007, but your depth of field may seem a little odd coming from 35mm to a APS-C sized sensor. I have moved from 10D (cropped sensor) to 5D (full frame , virtually same as 35mm negative) and everything just feels right now on the 5D. Of course full frame cameras are expensive, best try before you buy, also depends on your photography, if you shoot a lot of action ,wildlife etc then 40D would be a good buy, if your studio, landscape, the 5D would be more suitable etc etc IMO

regards scott




  
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J ­ Rabin
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Sep 04, 2007 19:16 as a reply to  @ Billginthekeys's post |  #4

Yes, the viewfinder is smaller and less bright.
I shot chromes from 1973 to 2004 before going digital, and YES you can have better control over saturation and tonal range in digital, BUT that's only if you ultimately adopt shooting RAW.

What you really have to be prepared for is not camera handling, nor exposure (it's like shooting chromes), its the massive transition to the "digital darkroom." It's a shocker. In fact, digital DOES NOT save time over shooting film, whatever time and money is saved not buying film is totally eaten and consumed with digital darkroom computer hardware and software.

Took me about 1 1/2 to 2 years to make the adjustment transition, and I'll never look back. Film is like vinyl LPs. Nostalgia. But, gosh is digital time consuming and expensive in hardware and software.

Go to sites like Luminous Landscape or Fred Miranda and peruse the documents on transition to digital. Even that Music teacher at U. of Hawaii, Peter Frary, has a nice site on transition from EOS 3 to Canon dSLR.
Google "Canon Raw Workflow" and be ready for a shocker.

PS: I miss my Oly OM and EOS 3 bodies.
Jack




  
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amfoto1
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Sep 04, 2007 20:03 |  #5

Hi,

I made the switch from EOS3 to 10D, and really enjoyed "going digital" right from the start. Friends of mine have made similar switches in Canon and other camera systems and told me they felt "reinvigorated" by all the freedoms digital photography offers. Some of those folks (serious amateurs, semi-pros and pros) had been shooting 35mm film since the late 1950s and early 1960s and were initially highly resistant to making the switch to digital. None have regretted it and switched back! That alone should tell you something.

The viewfinder on any 1.6X crop camera will be smaller and less manual focus friendly than on your film camera. The 40D addresses some of the compaints with a VF that is improved in several ways, including greater eye relief, slightly larger image and interchangeable focus screens (limited screens are available right now, but do include a high precision matte that will help with lenses f2.8 and faster).

However, I think you will be more dependent upon AF with a 40D than you have been with your EOS3s.

Digital images are in many respects better quality than even high resolution film scans can produce, if that's what you have been working with. I have a Nikon 4000 scanner and shot mostly Velvia 50. Nice, but I find digital images to be even cleaner and more grainless. Digital images "run out of gas" faster than film, when enlargements are done. With a 10MP camera like the 40D, you'll be able to do excellent 16x20, but enlarged much more and film can be better (there are softwares that can help a lot, though). I can tell you for sure that ISO 400 and 800 digital will easily beat any film on the market. 1600 shows some noise (instead of grain) but is still cleaner than film of equal speed.

When I bought it, my 10D and a few necessary accessories cost me more than *two* 40Ds would cost today. Still, that camera paid for itself in savings of film purchase and processing within less than a year. Now a shoot that nets me 1000-1500 images a day costs me nothing but memory space (granted the equipment will wear out and need to be replaced some day). The same day's shoot with film would have cost me $400 to $600 out of pocket before I saw a single image. Also, I can review the results in minutes, rather than waiting for 2 to 7 days for processed film to come back (slides).

So, I no longer feel restrained by the cost of film. Result, I shoot more images and take more risks... with great results. (I still go back and shoot film with both my EOS3s and several other classic systems during my "off season", because I think it's good for my shooting disciplines.)

It's also great that a 2GB CF card is good for about 200 shots, rather than having to change rolls every 36 exposures. It takes seconds to swap in another CF cards, and be ready to take another 200 shots!

Not to mention I can change ISO on every single shot, if need be, don't have to change film mid-roll when lighting conditions change radically.

The LCD screen allows you to review images, but is not as accurate as a computer monitor, so is best not used to pass final judgment on color and exposure. However, there is also the histogram, which, once you learn how to use it , will confirm exposures neatly.

And, I now carry just a few filters most of the time (3 sizes of UV, warming and polarizer, plus the same types in drop-ins for super teles), where I used to carry literally dozens. I can set the white balance to correct for odd light color issues. Or, I can just correct in post-processing, on my computer.

Finally, shooting RAW files is great. They allow lots of tweaking and refinement after the fact, more than JPEGs or film ever could. With Adobe Camera RAW and Adobe Bridge (in Photoshop CS2 in my case) I can open 40 to 50 image previews and do all sorts of pre-adjustments, then just run Image Processor and go get a cup of coffee while the software converts to JPEGs or TIFFs. Included in this is tweaking saturation up or down, leveling an errant horizon line, expanding or contracting dynamic ranging, changing white balance (color temperature), even marking images to trash or simply not use right now.

I don't yet have a 40D, but the AF on my 30D is close to the performance of my EOS3s (and much improved over the 10D). There are fewer focus points, but I usually restricted my EOS3s to 11 or 13 anyway (via CFn, with spot metering linked), so the 9 points the 30D uses aren't all that different for me. In fact, they reach more toward the top, bottom and sides of the image area than the EOS3's oval of 45 points does. The 40D has apparently seen a number of speed and sensitivity improvements in AF, compared to the 30D. All I've heard to date sounds darned good, although perhaps not quite as blazing fast as the 1D Mk II N's (the jury is still out on the 1D Mk III's AF, as far as I can tell).

If your budget allows, get a Tokina 12-24/4 (about $500) or a Canon 10-22 (about $650, if memory serves). One of those will get you the wide end of things back, although they are really only usable on the 1.6X crop cameras.

A lot of folks overlook "the other stuff" when thinking of converting to digital. Allow something in your budget for additional computer RAM, hard disk storage space, a solid backup system (extra hard disks and/or DVD burner), color calibration for your monitor (at least... printer too if possible), post-processing software (Photoshop or similar), and books and/or classes to learn how to use everything. (The DAM Book: Digital Asset Management for Photographers, and the Magic Lantern Guide for any particular camera are both highly recommended.) Another very nice thing to have is a graphics quality monitor. There are both CRT and flat screen, the latter being much more expensive for truly graphic quality. And, you'll want a photo quality printer of some sort, in all likelihood, if you don't already have one.

It's really too early to say if the 40D is going to be as reliable as the 10/20/30D have been, but I would expect so. FIrst userreports are that it's a great little camera, and the first reviews seem to predict a winner. Only time will tell if that's true, or we're just in a honeymoon period with ga ga new owners. But, it's not a camera that really tries to stretch the envelope out close to the breaking point and just has a bunch of reasonable improvements and upgrades from its predecessors. My 10D and 30D get regular, hard work outs and have given me very little trouble (3 years with the 10D, just over 1 year with the 30D).

By the way, most sports events I have EF 24-70/2.8 on one camera, EF 70-200/2.8 IS on the other. A great combo for me! However, I will eventually add a 12-24 to replace 17-35/2.8, if I stick with the 1.6X cameras (the 40D is very tempting!). For less hectic situations that allow it, I tend to go with prime lenses: currently from 20mm to 500mm, plus 1.4X and 2X.

If in doubt, perhaps you could rent a 30D (I doubt any 40Ds will be avail. for rent yet) and give it a try.

If you have ever used a digital P&S camera, the images from a D-SLR will blow you away. They are much cleaner and nicer. A 10MP P&S will almost always have as much or more noise at 200 ISO than a 10MP D-SLR at 800 ISO. The sensors in digital P&S cameras are really tiny, which makes for more problems with noise, especially as competition drives the MP count higher and higher. Larger D-SLR sensors, even in 1.6X crop cameras like the 10/20/30/40D, will give much cleaner images and more enlargement potential. FF digital can take it even farther, of course.

Have fun shopping!


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RandomShooter
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Sep 04, 2007 20:29 |  #6

As others have said, you have a lot more to consider than just whether the 40D will serve you well. (I have a 40D - based on experiences so far, I would say it would.) The mindset and workflow is very different for most of us from film. If you are ready for the big jump in terms of both money and the time required to learn a bunch of new stuff, I say go for it.




  
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JulianL
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Sep 04, 2007 20:37 |  #7

Sell me your EOS 3 and buy the 5D.


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tonybear007
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Sep 04, 2007 21:00 as a reply to  @ JulianL's post |  #8

Many many thanks for all your time and comments. I have been enlightened. (Special mention to Alan for the time put into his detailed comments.)

I forgot about the "workflow" part of the matter. I often play around with my slides in a Nikon LS-50 scanner but the TIME TO PERFECT AN IMAGE is just too much. I could see myself hating the post processing.

It appears that I would be better served with the 5D. I tend to focus manually for macro and product photos. The VF on the crop camera may be a bit bothersome.

Sell my EOS 3? Not a bad idea since I also have an Elan 7E and Minolta MAXXUM 700 Si. But I noticed on eBay that they are "giving" them away for about $250.

But I respect the law of supply and demand...


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DocFrankenstein
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Sep 04, 2007 21:16 |  #9

I've switched back to film after learning on digital, but I shoot for myself with a very occasional wedding which I print in wet darkroom.

The major difference would be the autofocus system. It's like going from EOS3 to an Elan... it is less of a camera, but it matters only if you shoot action/low light.


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davesrose
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Sep 04, 2007 21:23 as a reply to  @ tonybear007's post |  #10

I got a 5D just because I was so used to film SLRs....if it's in your budget, I certainly think it's the best one to transition to.....way less surprises over that viewfinder. As for PQ, as others have mentioned, the big advantages with digital are no more fretting over perfect scans. First thing that floored me about the 5D is shooting at ISO 800 and 1600.....well you'll see once you get into dSLRs! The color fidelity is something that you can either look on as a positive or negative: white balance can be temperamental in certain situations....but overall you get much more versatility there. Honestly, I think digital is now at the or exceeding most features of film. The main feature that I think it still needs improvement on is dynamic range. The best DR digital gets is close to 12 stops. Shooting in RAW gives you the full range of the sensor. If you do landscapes and such, you might find that bracketing in exposures to increase dynamic range might be something to experiment with. Instead of burning and dodging, I superimpose different exposure layers in my Photoshop file.

And if you plan on manual focus......you need to get a split screen!!!!!

Canon doesn't make one for the 5D, but there are third party ones. I have this one which I really like (Ec-B):

http://haodascreen.com​/Canon5D.aspx (external link)


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Naturalist
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Sep 04, 2007 21:32 as a reply to  @ davesrose's post |  #11

The best thing about going film to digital is zero film and processing costs so one can shoot like crazy and learn. I shot 76 images in a national cemetery yesterday and was not burdened by film or processing costs.

I love it and have not regretted it one bit.



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JasonW
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Sep 04, 2007 21:59 |  #12

I switched from a EOS-3 to a 20D about three years ago. I was shooting film and then scanning using a Nikon Coolscan IVED. I found that the quality of the shots from the 20D to be far superior than anything I got from a scanned negative (but then again maybe I am just a better photographer now???). I don't think that you will be unahppy with the image quality. The biggest change will be the AF system as the EOS-3 basically has a 1 series set up.


  
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Sep 04, 2007 22:30 as a reply to  @ JasonW's post |  #13

I originally dipped my toes into the digital world with a Rebel XT, just to see if I'd like it. Even coming from an EOS 3, I loved the instant feedback and ability to control post-processing that the digital cameras provided.

I did, however, miss the feature set and quality of the EOS 3, and prayed that Canon would make a digital EOS 3. I'm still holding my breath, but in the meantime, the EOS 5D has served me very well. Full-frame, bright view finder, quality build, very usable high ISO (800 is nothing, and 1600 is usable in a pinch), image quality comparable to film, and a quality build, made purchasing the 5D a must as soon as it was released.

BTW, you should be aware that the initial transition cost to digital can be very high. I had to upgrade my PC, monitor, purchase 3 external hard drives, buy a bunch of photography software programs, buy a photo printer, etc., etc. Don't let that scare you away, because once you move to digital, it's hard going back.




  
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Headcase650
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Sep 04, 2007 22:42 |  #14

tonybear007 wrote in post #3862421 (external link)
It appears that I would be better served with the 5D. I tend to focus manually for macro and product photos. The VF on the crop camera may be a bit bothersome.

The 40D with its live view and 10X manual focus on the 3 inch screen may serve better for this purpose.


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chinch
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Sep 04, 2007 23:04 |  #15

coming from film to dSLR this late in teh game i'd have to say start with a 5D and skip the 1.6x croppers.




  
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Moving from EOS 3 (film) to EOS 40D - will I be disappointed?
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