Blowing off steam

My local city wanted 17 different locations shot from the air for web and other print uses for the city. I have spoken with the person in charge in the past and he knows who I am. He is a computer guy and has told me he has no idea about photography.

I gave him a disc of 10 images,watermarked, that I had already shot in the local area and told him the quality was very good since I just had one printed at 40" x 60" for a client.

He said he would pay for 2 hours in a plane and I told him of the equipment I would shoot with, ie, 20D, 100-400 or 24-70, etc, and the quality of the equipment.

I gave them a rock bottom price and told him that they could have unlimited use of the photos for any type of print, presentation, or web use and that I was to receive photo credit.

I spoke to him last week and he said he would get back to me on Tuesday. Today is Friday so I called him.
He said they did the shoot yesterday, in house, with a Rebel and an IS lens. He said they came out good. Their issue was with having to give me photo credit every time they used the image.

I said well if you had gotten back to me like you said you would we could have talked about it.

To me this guy is just irritating. Nothing like giving the local resident the shaft.

It sucks to get the shaft, but let me ask. When you are looking to get work done on the house and you call over multiple contractors to get a quote, do you call the ones you do not choose to let them know why they didn’t get the job or just the one you choose. My experience is that I have never been called by someone just to tell me that they did not go with me. They do fess up if I call back. Sounds like you got the same treatment. It sucks and I hate it every time it happens, but it’s the way it is.

gjl711,
I think I am one of the more open and honest people. If I am not going to give the job to a contractor I tell them why so maybe it will help them in the future instead of just not returning a call.

This guy wanted to do a web business with me in the past regarding real estate people. I would of thought he had more class than that. If he says he is going to get back to me on Tuesday that is what I expect. Not to just ignore me and do the shoot.

Unfortunately he is a city employee with the attitude to match. We are supposed to just pay our taxes and shut up.

kona77 wrote in post #3880990
I think I am one of the more open and honest people. If I am not going to give the job to a contractor I tell them why so maybe it will help them in the future instead of just not returning a call.

I commend you, but alas, there are too few like you around. I have never been called back. I have always had to call.

kona77 wrote in post #3880990
This guy wanted to do a web business with me in the past regarding real estate people. I would of thought he had more class than that. If he says he is going to get back to me on Tuesday that is what I expect. Not to just ignore me and do the shoot.

Like I said, it sucks and I am not trying to make an excuse for him but I believe his type of behavior is all too common. Maybe is because folks hate confrontation or having to just explain themselves or maybe it’s because he’s a jerk. It will probably happen again.

Heh. I learned all my car mechanics from watching mechanics fixing my car. After that I did the same whenever there was a problem. I even ended up changing my cylinder head gasket.

Demanding, or making photo credit a part of any deal can blow the deal as you found out.
IMHO photo credits are great for me to see my name but, they don't pay anything and nobody remembers you from that credit anyway. Photo credits are a vanity thing that us photographers seem to think we need to see.

If you think credits are so darned important, tell me the photographer of the last photo you saw in a magazine which made you saw "WOW". I always look for the credits to see if it is anyone I know and thats about it.

Thanks Indy.

I didn't think they would have a problem since their other photos have included photo credits on everything.
The guy has a big ego and wanted to save some money. I can't wait to see the pictures. Some people are happy with mediocre.

I have to agree with Jeff on this one. I have long been a proponent of not asking for credits. Look through some magazines and specifically the advertisements, not many will have credits. Credits are nice for our ego but have you tried to take one to the bank and deposit it. You can still put whatever it is that you shot in your portfolio and quite honestly I doubt that many people will look for that small type in an image to see who shot it unless it is one of us and we just want to know.

Yeah it does suck that you lost a job that you thought that you had. This happens to all of us. It is business and the cities or local governments have to save money just as much as you do. One of my first encounters with this was shortly after I went full time. I had quoted a job to an advertising agency. It was going to be close to 2 full days of shooting and supplying them with a bunch of 20X24's. His last comment to me was that he would get back to me when they want to start shooting which I took to mean that I had the job. I had quoted like a business trying to stay in business so it was not cheap. When I had heard from them in a few days I called him and he advised me that they found some weekend warrior that would do the whole thing, including prints for 450.00 and I was around 2k. Live an learn. I went back and talked to them, not out of spite but to cement a relationship. I am now their photographer of record and they keep me nice and busy.

I did see the work that the other photographer had done and it was ok, not great but definitely ok. The agency asked what I thought and I told them just that. I will never slam another photographers work, particularly in front of a client or potential client. I have a feeling that you are getting yourself all lined up to do just that. Even if the work is satisfactory you seem upset enough that you won't acknowledge that.

This is all just part of being in business. People will lie to you to get a cheaper rate. Just like I want to maximize my returns they want to minimize their costs. Somewhere in there is a common ground that you both have to find.

I never ask for a credit anymore. I know that I took it and so does my bank account. The belief that credits are going to get you all these future jobs is an urban myth. What I do is ask them when I deliver the job. If they say no, they say no, it is not a big deal.

I do feel your frustration as I have been there before. You just have to let it go. The fact that it is a local government that you pay taxes to is a mute point.

ssim,,
Great points and I appreciate the lengthy response. It just seems like every mag I pick up photo credit is there, so why not me.
But live and learn. I just do not like the fact that he asked me questions about shooting this and I shared info that would improve the shots. He then took my info and did hit himself.

I hear you and understand your point about acknowledging the work. I just need to bite my tongue.

Lesson learned.
Thanks

ssim wrote in post #3882101
I have to agree with Jeff on this one. I have long been a proponent of not asking for credits. Look through some magazines and specifically the advertisements, not many will have credits. Credits are nice for our ego but have you tried to take one to the bank and deposit it. You can still put whatever it is that you shot in your portfolio and quite honestly I doubt that many people will look for that small type in an image to see who shot it unless it is one of us and we just want to know.

Yeah it does suck that you lost a job that you thought that you had. This happens to all of us. It is business and the cities or local governments have to save money just as much as you do. One of my first encounters with this was shortly after I went full time. I had quoted a job to an advertising agency. It was going to be close to 2 full days of shooting and supplying them with a bunch of 20X24's. His last comment to me was that he would get back to me when they want to start shooting which I took to mean that I had the job. I had quoted like a business trying to stay in business so it was not cheap. When I had heard from them in a few days I called him and he advised me that they found some weekend warrior that would do the whole thing, including prints for 450.00 and I was around 2k. Live an learn. I went back and talked to them, not out of spite but to cement a relationship. I am now their photographer of record and they keep me nice and busy.

I did see the work that the other photographer had done and it was ok, not great but definitely ok. The agency asked what I thought and I told them just that. I will never slam another photographers work, particularly in front of a client or potential client. I have a feeling that you are getting yourself all lined up to do just that. Even if the work is satisfactory you seem upset enough that you won't acknowledge that.



I never ask for a credit anymore. I know that I took it and so does my bank account. The belief that credits are going to get you all these future jobs is an urban myth. What I do is ask them when I deliver the job. If they say no, they say no, it is not a big deal.

.

SSIM I actually had a potential client email me once after he had someone else do the shoot I was supposed to do for him and asked me my opinions of what this guy delivered. I will be honest, it was crap but, I told the client I didn't really see as how my opinion would change anything. Either he was happy with what he got or he wasn't. He then called and asked if I looked at what he had. I told him I did but, I am not a critic so I don't express my views on someone elses work.

kona77 wrote in post #3881959
Some people are happy with mediocre.

And thats part of the issue. Some people wonder why anyone would spend $60K on a car, when they can get one for $20K that drives every bit as good. The $20K car is good enough for them, fits their budget, and will make them happy. It doesn't matter that the $60K car comes with Italian leather, hand built interior, expenisve diamond dust paint. Its still just a car to them. Quality is relative to each individual.

The best thing to do is to market to people that understand quality, will pay more for it, and feel they still got a bargain. That is probably the most important thing I learned after a few years in business. When someone called up and asked how much for X pictures, I kind of knew they probably weren't my type of client from the get go, since they were shopping based on price.

I knew I had a better chance at getting my rate with the ones that didn't bring up price first, but talked about my work, style, or special skills, or some of my images that were similar to what they were looking for. It showed me they were shopping on quality, skills, and style, and not just price.

As for credit lines, they are worth about as much as the paper they are printed on. Or exactly about .05 cents. In all my years, I have never gotten a job from a credit line, or had someone mention they saw one of my images with a credit.

Most art buyers or clients don't want text on or around their images as it may spoil the design of the piece they are creating. Ie, who wants a credit line on a brochure, mailing piece, cover photo, etc. However, I do ask for credits in magazines when I produce a number of images for an article. That credit is usually in the mast head, or with the article itself (story by, photos by). But other than that, I never ask.

It kind of sucks that you gave him lots of information on the phone regarding the job, and then he used it to shoot it himself. But its no worse than creating a 5 page bid with details on how to shoot a job, and have that go to another photographer using some of the ideas from my bid. Its business, it happens, and you just need to roll with the punches.

I almost never get a call back if not selected, and need to follow up with them. On the flip side, I almost never call all the plumbers, contractors, painters, or other 'vendors' when I'm pricing out work either. Some call me and I will explain why I chose a different vendor, but most never call and inquire. So its really not that important to them to understand, and thus not worth my time to call and hand deliver it to them. Heck, I'm even lucky if I can get a contractor to call me at all, even to quote a job. Must be nice not to have to return every sales call How much do plumbers make an hour. Maybe I should change jobs