Blown opportunity or smart decision?

This clearly would not have lead to paid work. I suspect he does not do many "gates"(sic) favors for the school. I would just let the coach know it did not work out and thank her for the referral.

Rich

Weird, even as a student I get paid by the publications department to fill in for the staff photographer. Bad deal all around it seems like.

I shot the UCSB Women's Tennis Team for six years Pro Bono. I was not allowed to put any advertising on pages with team pictures or recover real expenses in any way. I was also told not to even put UCSB in the titles of the pages of images. One year both men and women had a fund raiser Pro-Am competition and wanted a photographer. The women's coach asked if I would shoot it. All I asked for was tickets for me and my wife. The women's coach said fine. The men's coach said, "All my supporters are buying tickets so I can't very well allow you to come free." I said, "Thank you for your support." I find college athletes, coaches and SIDs to be very self centered ... this based on over 30 years at UCSB so if you don't agree I don't care ... they aren't charities, they always want support but they generally can't see any side but their own. I have found professional athletes and adult competitors to be very appreciative and open. I think you are MUCH better off without this irritation. But no, they don't owe you anything ... which is just what you got, which is more proof that the "Jock Mentality" isn't very pretty at the college level. Be glad it wasnt' dog fighting.

Little off topic, but Dwight, why were you shooting for UCSB tennis for free?
I can't even believe that the mens coach didn't give you tickets so you can take free pictures of them. What an idiot.

You did fine. I would have responded in a similar manner.

I wouldn't bother to explain why I don't want to shoot over weekend (or any other time) for free. I just don't. But basically you did right thing, and personally I wouldn't consider this as "blown opportunity". You can always shoot for free, so this wasn't such great opportunity anyway.

Maybe I should show up for the game anyway, family in tow, and take photos of the game for "fun".

Tee Why wrote in post #3905159
Little off topic, but Dwight, why were you shooting for UCSB tennis for free?
I can't even believe that the mens coach didn't give you tickets so you can take free pictures of them. What an idiot.

For experience and I enjoyed the girls the first couple of years. I put the images up on a website that family and friends could access, but of course I couldn't sell prints. But the last couple of years the girls on the team became Princesses. I walked out one day with $30K of camera equipment to shoot a match and had five girls tell me they didn't like some picture of them on the website and I had to take them off ... the same girls who never said "Thanks" but would complain when I didn't get images up quickly enough for them to show their boyfriends. That was when I told them, "I'll get those pictures off the web tonight" and I took that section of my website down forever. The coach never asked me why I took the galleries down or tried to talk to the girls .... it had been a free good (that he would point his recruits' parents to so they could see the action from previous years) so it was no great loss to him either.

One of the things I have learned the hard way is that people value my work based on how I value it: when I gave it away it was worth nothing, but now that I charge for my efforts it is monetarily valuable. Another thing I learned is that when I started charging for my work, the people who used to get it for free were angry at me. I even had a public argument with a radio DJ who was demanding all sorts of pictures, had never offered a penny, and blown away when I asked for compensation.

Hmm sad story Dwight. Good thing you aren't doing it anymore.

As for the football thing. I would expect to be paid at the same rate that their regular photographer gets paid or a bit more as a one time temp type of a deal.

I used to offer some photos and such at events that I attended anyway, but I'm definitely seeing the point of valuing your work and charging for it. I think I will not be giving away my images for free anymore either.

Definitely a good point, if you don't value your work, no one else will either.

Tee Why wrote in post #3908073
Definitely a good point, if you don't value your work, no one else will either.

This was the biggest lesson ever! When I tell people I charge $2000/day up to $3500/day they also treat me much more respectfully. But the thing I like best is telling someone I would do a job for $1700, having them counter offer $500, and saying, "I'm sure there are a lot of photographers out there who would love to do the job for $500. Would you like me to put out the word that you're looking?" I already have more work than I have time for so I would probably have to sacrifice something else to do anything new anyway but I love the expression on their faces when I essentially laugh at them for making such an offer. But I am never angry about it ... I am simply amused, because they have no leverage at all.

Oh, one other thing: Photocredit is NOT compensation, it is a condition of usage. When someone says, "I want to use your images and I'll give you photocredit" I always make that point. Photocredit does not pay bills or buy camera equipment and I am not in the business of supporting charities.

I don't think I would have gone into the telling of time equals money, but maybe suggested that some other option could be worked out if this would have led to a reoccurring paying deal in the future.

A suggestion might have gotten him to bite instead of leaving it to him to suggest, especially since his regular guy wasn't going to be at the game.

DwightMcCann wrote in post #3908259
Oh, one other thing: Photocredit is NOT compensation, it is a condition of usage. When someone says, "I want to use your images and I'll give you photocredit" I always make that point. Photocredit does not pay bills or buy camera equipment and I am not in the business of supporting charities.

I totally agree with you on this. 99% of people don't look at byline when looking photos. 99% of that remaining 1% forgets shooters name before then turn page around, and from that 1% of remaining 1% you won't get much business anyway, since they are too busy studying and remembering bylines, rather then doing business
Personally I never got job till now because someone would see my name in byline. And on top of that, cashier in my food store laughed at me last time I wanted to buy bread and milk with showing her national newspaper with photo and my name under it.

I used to do car stereo work for a living and one of the companies I worked for had a policy that they would never match competitors "Free Installation" specials. At first I was dumbfounded as we all felt we would lose business to these competitors, but when it was explained to us it made perfect sense. By working for free you are telling your "employer" (in this case the employer is the customer) that your work isn't worth anything. Once we explained this to people asking why we wouldn't match it they would buy from us. It made sense to them too. After all, they work for a living as well.

There are some times though when I feel like this type of philosophy isn't valid. For instance, when you are learning. I have been asked to do a wedding next Feb and the couple wants to pay me. I don't feel that I should charge them because I am not a pro. My "fee" is the experience gained from the opportunity. While this may lead to problems down the road, from friends or family of the couple possibly looking for a deal, I am prepared to handle that situation should it arise. The answer will be that my work is now worthy of being paid (at least I hope it is ).

So Ed I think you answered the SID properly since you already have the experience and the shots to back you up on your decision.

Lord_Malone wrote in post #3905822
Maybe I should show up for the game anyway, family in tow, and take photos of the game for "fun".

If you would have a good time at the game go for it.

I've just returned to London from 8 days in Ireland doing promo shots for a tour company. I got the gig after someone in marketing at the tour company saw some shots I put on my webalbum after I went on another trip from the same company in Scotland (which I actually won in a photo comp!).

I'd never done anything along these lines before and I figured it would be a great experience. I wasn't paid for my time but they did fly me to Ireland and back, send me on an 8 day tour for free and pay for all my accomoation and entry into attractions, all up it probably was worth around £500.

The deal is I retain ownership over the photos but give the tour company the right to use the images for their promotional materials and on their website.

What do you guys think of my decision to take this on? Was I being taken advantage of or did I grasp a great opportunity to take a free vacation and gain some great experience taking photos that I'd love to be taking anyway?

If you're interested at all you can see my results here http://picasaweb.googl​e.com/simon.bills/Sham​rocker

Would love to hear opinions.