Refurbs and BH Photo - Exception to the rule, or is it?

gjl711 wrote in post #3915585
If its as long as your saying, I agree, used would have been more appropriate, but I have a feeling that B&H is using the refurb label for anything that is sent back to the factory to be re-certified irrespective of age. Used is simple someone trading it in and you buy as is. Either way it would be nice to see some history of the refurb before purchase. I’m sure your decision would have been different if you had known its history.

Did you know the brand new Mk II was only $500 higher? And MkIIN was almost $1k or something like that. I would have taken either of them.

It was strange to receive the camera with 5k actuations in it, but then again, REFURBED is such a wide concept, that it could mean anything they want it to.

But my only hope -if repair costs are excessive, because I won't get wound up for three or four hundred dollars- I will probably try to bring up the history, and the point that the particular camera had been into Canon for repair, prior to the time of my purchase only six months ago, as a Refurbed Camera -Box is tagged as so with a seal around it-. It's not going to do anything, but a vain attempt to get info from Canon, in case they send me back to BH Photo. At this point BH finds no fault. In my book, welcome BH Photo to the Adorama type website. No more above average photo store. If feel as if I had bought the camera from Ebay.

Estimate updates:
Camera - $195 paid, now they will open it to assess real estimate
Lens (24-105) - $173 paid, they will clean and recalibrate, which is ok.
Lens (70-200) - $0, because I bought USA new, and is under warranty, also clean and recalibrate.

Will post more when I know more.

Just for what it's worth.. I have purchased a couple of refurb items from B & H. One was an EOS3 body and the other a 550 flash. They both have worked perfectly since they arrived. In fact, the EOS3 survived hurricane katrina because it was on a foam baby-bed matress that floated..LOL..I still use the flash with my 10d. However, given the complexity of the newer digital cameras, I would really have to think long and hard about a refurb.. Your experience will certainly be factored-in.. Hope it all works out for you and they can give you an economical and lasting fix..Bob <><

Good point. Please don't base your desicions solely on on my experience. This is the second and only (!?) problem with BHPhoto. $30k and 6 Cameras after, I think it's a fairly good record, not if you ask me today though.

So let me stop assuming common sense from every reader, and say this has only been my experience, and not in any way shape of form, the standard by which any other readers should abide. Perhaps there is still no better dealer than BH for equipment. As for me, the refurbed train stops here.



and Oh!!... I just called Canon again, and just asked the rep to fax me a copy of the service history of the camera. They only asked one question: What's your fax #?...

With that, I can at least put a more formal complaint to BH. If needed, or required.

There is nothing wrong with purchasing a factory refurbished item from B&H or Adorama or any other legitimate camera dealer. Items that have been refurbished by Canon are returned to proper working condition...the only exception being appearance items...they don't fix a scratch on the case or the black rubbed off a hot shoe. Beyond that, there is no difference between a refurb and a new item...there is no greater chance that a refurb camera is going to fail than a brand new camera will. In many instances, refurb units are in better shape than a brand new from the box model...because they have been inspected for flaws and repaired to new condition...(Not all new cameras are inspected, nor are they always in perfect condition.)

Hinting that B&H and Adorama are scam artists because they sell refurbs is rather naive and immature. Most consumers know what a refurb is and are able to make an informed decision based on that as to whether or not they wish to purchase said item. Again, the odds on a refurb camera failing are no higher that for any other camera...in fact, the odds might actually be lower.

Sure, it sucks that your camera has a problem...but the facts of the matter are these:
a. You chose to purchase a refurb camera. No camera retailer forced you to make this purchase.

b. When the camera arrived and you discovered it had 4K activations, you had the option to return it right then. Again, no camera retailer forced you to keep the camera.

c. By you own admission, even after noticing a high shutter count, you didn't contact the seller for a clarification and possible return or exchange.

d. You placed the camera in service and used it while the warranty was still in force. Apparently the camera functioned as it was supposed to, because you didn't return it for repair or replacement while still under warranty.

e. You state the camera has been to Canon for repair 3 times...let's look at those numbers. According to Canon, one was for a cleaning (which lots of people have done and it doesn't indicate a faulty camera), one was when the camera was refurbished...and finally when you sent it in for your repair issue. There is nothing there that jumps up and screams "lemon" or even hints that there might be an evil plot by B&H, Canon or even Adorama (I still don't know how they came to be in your post, since they have absolutely nothing to do with this particular camera or it failing.)

f. Your warranty has now expired and suddenly the camera has a heart attack and dies. I'm sorry...but this is not B&H's fault, this is not Canon's fault, (and just so you don't think I am being a hard ass) this is not your fault either...stuff sometimes just happens.

With any luck, Canon will be able to fix the issue without a major expense on your part. And all will be right with the world again.

Thanks Dan.

If you have this type of situation happen theres no way you are going to go refurb again.
This whole "savings'" of refurb goes out the window pretty quickly.
Then on top to find out the trouble this camera has had in its fairly new life that bodes even poorer odds.

(Thanks tyreman, that's the moral of this thread to me at least ).

Blah, I thought I'd share my experience. If you can use it, great. If not, I am sure there is another thread on this forum worth reading.

it makes one wonder really what is the specific classification of returns that fall under the label "refurbished"
After reading this could be not be just about anything? including ....Lemon

Tyreman wrote in post #3916670
it makes one wonder really what is the specific classification of returns that fall under the label "refurbished"
After reading this could be not be just about anything? including ....Lemon

That is the theoretical question that came to my mind. Imagine:

- I buy a new 1D Mk II.

During an unspecified amount of time,

- I put a total of 4500 actuations on it

- Send it to Canon for Cleaning and Repair

- Then I end up returning it where I purchased it. (Within what period?)

(Here is where it gets really tricky)

- The Store sends the Camera back to Canon (Probly customer said "It don't work" )

- Canon cleans the camera once more, and sends it back to the Store (Do they send it back as a refurb, or used?... who knows)

- The store sells YOU the camera as a Refurb, and not as a regularly used Camera (So you pay almost NEW price rather than used).

I think there is a big difference in Refurbished vs. regularly used camera. (Stores even have policies, that say if you use it more than so many minutes, we cannot accept returns... why? because then it is considered used).

Simple way to differentiate:

- A Customer that sends a camera to Canon, makes a repaired used camera
- A Store that sends a camera back to Canon, makes a refurbished camera.

At least from my view.

And again, just discussing the subject given this strange situation.

A little over 2 years ago, before the release of the N I purchased a "Factory Refurbished" MkII for $3195.00 from Adorama. At that time the new 1DMkII was still $3995.00. To make a long story short at somewhere around 240,000 actuations I sent it in to Canon for a preemptive shutter replacement before my $100.00 service voucher expired. I now have just under 1000 shots on the new shutter and I am very happy to say that it is still going strong. I wouldn't hesitate to buy another one. Especially given my $800.00 savings.

Michael

I've had two refurbs from B&H.

A 1DMKIIN, which had the high ISO banding, went right back, full refund

An Epson P-2000, which is still going strong

It is going to be hit or miss.

4K actuations in sports would be, for us, 3-5 games outdoors. So, yeah, in a week or two a pro could put on 4K no sweat.

I hope that it turns out to be nothing very serious.

Thanks Sam. I authorized the estimate (195) today, and I am hoping to hear before the end of the week, as to what will be replaced, and what it will cost.

Just in case, Thanks everyone.

Refurbs can be great if used within their guidelines. I did not. I should have -as pointed above- shot 5k actuations of my own, and returned it before the warranty expired. I did not do enough research. I am praying the technician is also looking at the history of what has been done before to the camera, and not just replacing everything inside the case.

Dang Mario... thst totally sucks.
I guess you'll "just have to stare at you're 40D and talk to me."

OOOOOOOOOOOOHHHHHH !!!!.... That was dirty.

Ouch, Lucy, Ouch.

Just an update:

Canon called me two days later, and said that they had wrong serial numbers, and that the Records pulled out, were due to the Lot Number entered in, rather than the serial (Who knows, I have no tools to fight them on that). So their good news to me were that my Serial Number shows absolutely no record of service, until I sent it in (Interesting, because a refurb would at least have a record of being refurbed).

At any rate, they went ahead and for the $195 replaced the main PCB, Most mirror parts (Sub-mirror specially), and Shutter assembly. Hey, I am a happy cat, I thought. Screw the serial number, It's in Canon being repaired, and it will be on my hands shortly.

Well, when the lenses arrived, they were perfect. Clean, lubricated, snug, and sharp.

The camera arrived the same day as well. I was completely besides myself with Happiness. Then I went out to celebrate, and buy an EF lens fisheye. I had put the straps on the Camera, and heading out, I decided to snap a lens and see how things worked. The shutter / mirror slap was nice, just the awesomest clack you will ever hear. Photos? Good!!... Though... Are the lit up numbers and squares in the viewfinder twitching?... They are!!.. And some of the numbers below (say Aperture value) some of the bars that form the numbers, were not displaying at all. And a nice ding on the glass covering the LCD area in the back, had not been replaced (I had asked for this expressely).

Called Canon Back, and they just said ok, send it back in.
I tried shamelessly to be a bit self-righteous and pushy, but then I was angry. My bad. The Manager for their Professional team said "Look, all we can do is move forward. All I can do for you is send you a fedex label, fix your camera same day if possible or two days, and then send it back to you fedex".

I was pretty mad about it, frankly. But then I put myself on the other side. Stressing about it will do nothing. I got my lenses and the 40D is under 1k actuations, so I should survive until next week. Boxed it all up, and sent it back.

So here is the part of Admission:

BH Photo did probably have not much to do with the whole thing. They sell what they got. I should not have judged them so swiftly. So I am sorry for that. I will make it back up to them by buying a battery grip for my 40D, and also a lens. That should make things even.

Canon, well, is the necessary "Evil" if you will. The Camera has a lot of complex parts, and if you do want it back in 10 days, they can't just take their good old time. However, I do think they should have a better QC cycle. I mean who took a test photo before shipping the camera to me? Did they not see the Christmas light show on the viewfinder?... Who knows. I must give them the benefit of the doubt.

And that's it. I'll post once more when the Canon makes it back.