Gitzo 6x owners, is Ground Level Set halfway bogus?

I'm a brand new forum member but I've been reading here for quite awhile. I bought a 30D in June and after reading just about every thread on the internet about tripods I bought a Gitzo GT2530 6x carbon fiber tripod two days ago. No buyer's remorse, I'm very satisfied with what my money (a lot of it) bought me. But there is one thing that doesn't live up to the advertising, unless I'm missing something essential, which is very possible. So I'm asking any Gitzo 6x owners or anyone familiar with them to help me out.

Ground Level Set is a new Gitzo feature that allows you to remove the center column and secure the ballhead attachment disk directly to the center column locking collar. It's very easy to do and makes a very stable and secure platform. In its catalog and on the website Gitzo makes two claims for GLS, it reduces weight and it makes "ground level photography" (their words) possible. And to illustrate the ground level capability the catalog, website and the tag that is attached to the tripod have a drawing that clearly shows the tripod legs at a low angle with the tripod center a few inches off the ground.

The weight reduction is why I was primarily interested in GLS since the height of the tripod with the center column unextended is perfect for me. But ground level ability was an attractive feature if I ever decided to pursue macro and it was a factor in my decision to spend my money on the latest generation Gitzo instead of a cheaper competitor.

After playing around with the 2530 for several hours it seems to me that Ground Level Set doesn't make ground level photography possible. After thouroughly reading and implementing the instructions that came with the tripod I've observed the following:

1. The instructions state there are three tripod leg angles: 24, 60 and 80 degrees.

2. At the 60 degree stop with the legs retracted, the center column only has to be raised 3/16 of an inch to keep it from touching the ground. So I can use the tripod with the center column or without the center column equally well at this setting. GLS doesn't seem to be an advantage here.

3. The 80 degree stop is really 90 degrees as far as I can tell. But no matter what the actual angle is, at this stop with GLS implemented the bottom part of the metal collar that holds the center column touches the ground first, leaving the legs wobbling off the ground. This is clearly useless for photography.

4. Putting the legs at an angle between stops doesn't make a stable setup. The weight of the camera and ballhead push the legs down to the next leg stop.

So the 60 degree leg stop works equally well with or without GLS and the 80/90 degree leg stop is useless even with GLS. Where exactly is the "ground level photography" ability that GLS allows which is illustrated in the drawing that accompanies all of the advertising? And what is the point of the 80 degree leg stop if it makes the tripod completely unstable?

Thanks for any comments or enlightenment. Now for the ballhead, Markins, Kirk, RRS, Acratech, AS.........

By the way, I tried for more than half an hour to send this to Gitzo through their website. Everytime I added more than a sentence to the message the email would be rejected. I've sent a very short message to them asking for another email address so I can ask them my questions directly.

i use my 3530LSV without center column for ground shooting all the time and don't have any problem with the 90 degree stops. not sure why you would have a problem but maybe pictures can help in this case.

I'll try and get some pictures this weekend. But the 3530LSV is a systematic model, right? It has the flat plate that can go right to the ground? The GT2530 is a Mountaineer model. There is a tube that holds the center column. When you remove the column to use the Ground Level Set the tube stays there, as well as the twisting collar that locks the center column in place. You then insert the hook assembly into the bottom of the tube and place the plate onto the top of the twist collar. The hook assembly then screws directly into the plate. But the tube extends below the level of the leg assemblies by maybe half an inch. So when the legs are extended straight out the whole thing high centers on that bottom tube extension.

I don't know for sure, but if the legs truly were 80 degrees at the last stop, or at least some other very low angle, there would be enough of an angle to let the legs touch ground first.

i see. now here is my question for you: do you have the leg sections extended? i am thinking that maybe they need to be extended to sort of push the tripod up.

I didn't try that, I will when I get home.

Here is a picture of the GT2530 leg assembly (I'm adding an attachment I hope). You can clearly see the bottom portion of the metal tube that holds the center column and how it extends quite a bit past the level of the legs. You can also see the metal stops for the legs. The legs are at 24 degrees in the picture, labeled #1. The next notch, labeled #2, is for 60 degrees and the final notch, labeled #3, for 80 degrees is the raised ridge that circles the plate. It's a small picture, if you want to see a larger one go to the Really Right Stuff website and look at page 9 of their catalog.

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now i see what you mean. well, try to do the 90 degree stop with the legs fully extended but i have a feeling that it is still not going to work. if that still doesn't work, maybe you should look at some of the ground pods options like the kirk and RRS.

I've got two Gitzo tripods from the new range, one flat plate and one center column with GLS. In GLS mode the center column tripod has just as much potential to get as close to the ground as the flat plate model at 80 degrees but it is hindered by the bag-hook hitting the ground first. I know it's a hack but if this extremely splayed configuration is important to you then I would either:

a) dremmel off the hook that's hitting the ground.
b) have someone make up a replacement part that does not include the hook. It is a very simple part.

Foxbat, I'm doubting your contention that it's only the hook that inhibits a ground level setup, take a look at that picture and at how long the bottom extension of the center tube sleeve is. But it will be easy to check. I can just remove the bottom hook assembly completely and then open the legs to the widest stop. I'm going to play around with it some more this weekend.

As for the extremely splayed condition being important to me? Well, my impression from the Gitzo literature, illustrations and even the instruction booklet that came with the tripod explaining GLS was that I wasn't getting that extremely splayed condition but that I was getting a very low but useable leg angle that would approximate a groundpod. Why didn't I check this out before I bought? Because it really isn't that important to me. I bought the tripod for it's quality, strength, rigidity, light weight and height with the center column unextended. But it did seem like a useful and intriguing extra.

So why did I post about it? Ground Level Set is prominently marketed by Gitzo in all of their literature as one of the valuable new features of their updated tripods. I don't think the product lives up to its claims and I think it's pretty easy to demonstrate that the 2530 cannot perform as Gitzo claims. If someone really wants this feature I think it's valuable to let them know to investigate it completely before buying. And considering the incredible rep that Gitzo has among serious amateurs and pros I'm a little surprised that they're so heavily promoting something that doesn't exist.

But like I said, it's entirely possible that I don't understand the full range of features on it. I'd really like to be able to ask Gitzo these question directly. If they respond to my short note I will.

to me where you have 3 marked doesnt look like one of the stops, it just looks like part of the collar, the GLS leaves the tripod centre approx 5 or 6 inches off the ground by looks of the catalogue image, and this is more like 80 degrees than 90 ?

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Ian I completely agree with both of your points.

The third stop also looks to me like it is just the collar. But the 24 and 60 Degree stops are pretty obvious, even in the picture, and when you set the legs at those stops you get the angles indicated. And after the 60 degree stop I don't see anything else but the collar.

Thanks for posting the catalog picture. That is essentially the same picture that is in the instruction booklet and on the tag that hangs on the tripod, and as I said to Foxbat that is what I thought I was getting with Ground Level Set. But again, if that is what it's supposed to look like I have not yet discovered how to arrive there. I've got the weekend to play around with it.

IanC_UK wrote in post #3931563
to me where you have 3 marked doesnt look like one of the stops, it just looks like part of the collar

Yes that's right. Here's a picture of mine extended to the "third" position. In this position the push-stopper does not stop against anything. The stop is provided by the bolt in the top of the leg butting up against the back of the first stop (difficult to see in this picture).

I'm interested to see how the OP gets on with his tests.

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I don't want to hijack here, but thought this was an opportunity for comparison. My Benro 328n6 is similar to the Gitzo and does have the option of a 4.5" center column to provide for ground level shooting. I put the legs in position three (the Benro does have a stop there that you can't go past) with legs unextended and measured the distance to floor from bottom of column clamp throat. A little over two inches. And since the top of the collar is almost six inches, there might be room to use the hook with the column stub, but I don't think it's necessary to use at all. Anyway, just a comparison point, and interesting that although these are supposedly copies, that in so very many ways they are not.

I have been recommending the GLS version based on my Benros. Very interested in OP's findings.

Stew

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Kent Clark, which GT2530 model do you have? According to the Gitzo catalog, the GT2530LVL has a clearance of 14.2", the GT2530EX has a clearance of 0" and the GT2530 has a ground clearance of 13". If you don't have the GT2530EX, that may explain why you can't get any lower than what you've seen.

Foxbat, very interesting picture. My pod has those bolts but they do not hit anything. When I pull the legs out to the last position it doesn't stop until the plastic stopper hits the collar.

Pac Ace, I think those dimensions refer to minimum height with the center column. And that is exactly the measurement I get when the legs are at 60 degrees and the columns just touches the ground. But Ground Level Set is for use when the center column is removed and the attachment plate is bolted directly to the metal sleeve that holds the center column.

When I first started looking at this I was pretty cynical about marketing hype and big companies trying to pull a fast one on its customers, but after spending some more time on it today I'm convinced that this is a manufacturing error on Gitzo's part.

All of the descriptions in the Gitzo catalog and website talk about three leg positions; all of the descriptions and illustrations show the pod using GLS with its legs at a very low angle and the center column clearing the ground by a few inches. And most importantly, the 2530 instructions specifically say that the third stop gives a leg angle of 80 degrees (scan attached). The only third stop I have gives a completely flat leg angle of 90 degrees, which with the center sleeve, makes that angle completely useless. I made a cardboard template that was an 80/90/10 degree triangle. When I extended the legs to 80 degrees using the template the tripod looked exactly like the pictures, clearing the ground by a couple of inches.

Something is wrong, either with my tripod or with the design in general, that is making the 80 degree angle unobtainable. Next week I'll go back to the store and check out their other 2530s in stock. If they have some that do make an 80 degree angle I'll ask for an exchange. If all of their pods show the same problem I'll ask them to contact the Gitzo rep to get this resolved.

I'll attach a couple of photos to some following posts. Thanks everyone for talking this over.

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