why is the recycle time so bad on the internal flash 400D

convergent wrote in post #3971258
Recycle time is going to vary by two factors... the charge on the battery, and the power of the previous flash. If you are pretty much in the dark and requiring max power from the flash, it will take a lot longer to recycle than if you were outdoors in the sun and just using it for fill flash. So trying to compare recycle times with other folks here without a context on the conditions you are shooting in is an impossible task. I would say that 15 seconds sounds way to long to me, but in order to do a real test with another body, you need to make sure you are in the same situation with the same settings.

They vary by 3 factors I can think of at least, as posted above, the recycle time after a number of flashes is also limited by canon in the firmware, as stated in the manual. 15 seconds after taking approx. 20 flashes is normal behaviour for a 400d.

hmmm, ok, hear what u are saying but
as one of the guys said above, i thought the flash recycle time was not an issue, it was the buffer speed as such?

neilg wrote in post #3969655
The manual states that flash recylce times will increase after taking a number (20 mentioned in the manual) of flashes to protect the electronics of the flash charging mechanism.

http://static.tigerdir​ect.com/pdf/Canon-XTi400D-Manual.pdf See page 54.
Looking at your quote you are experiencing what is documented in the manual. So it's normal, not a fault.


Secondly I read an "unofficial" change in the latest firmware release that the flash recycle time had been improved (i.e that the busy sign should come up after 20 shots and not after about 5 as it did previously), but have not tested this myself, so maybe the latest firmware might help if you don't already have it.

ok - what can one do to affect he buffer speed on the 400d

aside form updating firmware - which iv never done.

i wonder if anyone here has ever updated the firmware

Jon wrote in post #3971053
The "buffer" is a block of memory in the camera that serves as a temporary holding area for photos before they're written to the card. It's set up so that it can be written to very quickly, but can empty data on to the card at a slower pace. It's basically "disk caching" for your camera.

hmmm,

sorry to harp on about this, but someone said earlier that -

the flash recycle time is actually not really an issue - as if u look in the lcd screen the little flash arrow appears straight away almost,

someone was saying that

its more to do with the bufffer time when the lcd has the mesage "buzy"

does this mean - that the buffer speed can not be prevented,

doe this mean that - all u can do is have a fresh battery and not have a full memory card

are these the onlky 2 factors that are actually in our control.

i know what u mean about taking in syun light verses - in a dark area where it'll use more power...

convergent wrote in post #3971258
Recycle time is going to vary by two factors... the charge on the battery, and the power of the previous flash. If you are pretty much in the dark and requiring max power from the flash, it will take a lot longer to recycle than if you were outdoors in the sun and just using it for fill flash. So trying to compare recycle times with other folks here without a context on the conditions you are shooting in is an impossible task. I would say that 15 seconds sounds way to long to me, but in order to do a real test with another body, you need to make sure you are in the same situation with the same settings.

AussieCat wrote in post #3976751
hmmm,

sorry to harp on about this, but someone said earlier that -

the flash recycle time is actually not really an issue - as if u look in the lcd screen the little flash arrow appears straight away almost,

someone was saying that

its more to do with the bufffer time when the lcd has the mesage "buzy"

does this mean - that the buffer speed can not be prevented,

doe this mean that - all u can do is have a fresh battery and not have a full memory card

are these the onlky 2 factors that are actually in our control.

i know what u mean about taking in syun light verses - in a dark area where it'll use more power...

If it is a buffer problem, and not the normal way a 400d operates using the internal flash (ie. slows down after roughly 20 shots) then you will also get the same problem when not shooting with the flash, is this so? If so then putting the flash recycle time as the subject is a little missleading. How does your camera react when taking pictures without the flash, how many pics can you take in a row before it slows down?

The busy symbol is used in 2 situations, again see the manual for detailed information. If the busy symbol is displayed on its own without the flash symbol the camera is waiting for the buffer to empty. If the busy symbol comes on with the flash light symbol it means the camera is waiting for the flash to recharge/cool down. Which do you see?

Note that the camera can take about 30 jpeg images in size large/fine, using continuous shooting (Ie. holding the shutter down and taking photos continuously without releasing it) in somewhere around 7.7 and 18 seconds depending on make/type of CF card. So unless you are holding down the shutter and snapping 3 frames a second fora long time (which you can't do whilst using the flash as you will hit the limit of 20 shots before the camera slows you down anyway to cool the flash) or are shooting in RAW mode with your finger on the button continuously I don't see how it can be a buffer speed problem (could be a CF card problem tho')

Only way to be sure is to answer the 2 questions above.

ok,

to answer some things

when i see the "buzy" word on the LCD screen, the flash symoble inside the viewfinder is lightened up ,

thjere soes not seem to be an issue with the flash symbol. its always on, i dont have to wait for teh flash symbol.

but i do have to wait up to 10 seconds i'd now say for the "buffer" to be ok to shoot again.

it says "busy" for up to 10 seoncds, 15 secins in exstreme cases, (rare)

.............

hoevere, like it was noted . if i shoot without the floash ata ll

i have NO probles with the buffer at all !!!!

its really fast and i can take heaps of shots no problemss with recycle time...

so - even though the flash (arrow) symbol is always lit up - i guess its recycling the flash right? thats why the bugffer speed is an issues, usually after about 15-20 consecutive shots,

i have the most expensive sandisk card u can get, i have new batteries, and its still gets the "busy" thing when using the internal flash over and over .....

hmmmm

neilg wrote in post #3976869
If it is a buffer problem, and not the normal way a 400d operates using the internal flash (ie. slows down after roughly 20 shots) then you will also get the same problem when not shooting with the flash, is this so? If so then putting the flash recycle time as the subject is a little missleading. How does your camera react when taking pictures without the flash, how many pics can you take in a row before it slows down?

The busy symbol is used in 2 situations, again see the manual for detailed information. If the busy symbol is displayed on its own without the flash symbol the camera is waiting for the buffer to empty. If the busy symbol comes on with the flash light symbol it means the camera is waiting for the flash to recharge/cool down. Which do you see?

Note that the camera can take about 30 jpeg images in size large/fine, using continuous shooting (Ie. holding the shutter down and taking photos continuously without releasing it) in somewhere around 7.7 and 18 seconds depending on make/type of CF card. So unless you are holding down the shutter and snapping 3 frames a second fora long time (which you can't do whilst using the flash as you will hit the limit of 20 shots before the camera slows you down anyway to cool the flash) or are shooting in RAW mode with your finger on the button continuously I don't see how it can be a buffer speed problem (could be a CF card problem tho')

Only way to be sure is to answer the 2 questions above.

Ok, you have answered the question yourself.

If it is ok without the flash, but a problem with the flash, then it is the flash recycle time that is the issue, it is not the buffer that is causing the slowdown. (Forget you heard the word buffer at all - it has nothing to do with the flash)

You seem to be looking at 2 screens at once, just stick to one, the LCD or in the viewfinder, if the busy symbol is shown in either screen, with or without the flash symbol it will show the same on the other. The fact you are seeing a busy symbol with the flash symbol shows that the flash is busy, thats why they both show at the same time. The flash symbol lighting up with the busy symbol does not mean the flash is ready and the camera is busy, it means the flash is busy.

You are almost there, like I said above, if the flash symbol is lit up with the busy symbol it means the flash is busy, ok? Not that the flash is ready. The flash is then ready when the busy symbol goes out but the flash symbol remains on.
Again, this problem has nothing to do with the buffer, it is the flash recycle time, you do not have a buffer speed issue at all, forget the word buffer.

Don't say "the "buffer"", as it is incorrect, ok.

ok

i hear you mate
.

its just
people used the idea aboit buffer in previous post....

but what ur saying makes sense - if it works fine with no flash then its clear its teh flash thats making the busy sign come up...

i guess i just will have to accept that recycle time can range up to 10-12 seonds when using the internal flashh for morr than say 20 shots over a 5-15 minute photo shott duration

neilg wrote in post #3977054
Ok, you have answered the question yourself.

If it is ok without the flash, but a problem with the flash, then it is the flash recycle time that is the issue, it is not the buffer that is causing the slowdown. (Forget you heard the word buffer at all - it has nothing to do with the flash)


You seem to be looking at 2 screens at once, just stick to one, the LCD or in the viewfinder, if the busy symbol is shown in either screen, with or without the flash symbol it will show the same on the other. The fact you are seeing a busy symbol with the flash symbol shows that the flash is busy, thats why they both show at the same time. The flash symbol lighting up with the busy symbol does not mean the flash is ready and the camera is busy, it means the flash is busy.


You are almost there, like I said above, if the flash symbol is lit up with the busy symbol it means the flash is busy, ok? Not that the flash is ready. The flash is then ready when the busy symbol goes out but the flash symbol remains on.
Again, this problem has nothing to do with the buffer, it is the flash recycle time, you do not have a buffer speed issue at all, forget the word buffer.

Don't say "the "buffer"", as it is incorrect, ok.

AussieCat wrote in post #3977069
ok

i hear you mate
.

its just
people used the idea aboit buffer in previous post....

I can see where the confusion came from. Whats confusing is that they use the busy symbol for 2 different situations, so to exactly know where the problem was we needed all the information you can give us.
And sadly, yes you will have to live with it as there is not much we can do about it, I guess canon have good reason for it.

I take lots of photos sometimes with the internal flash, and am also frustrated when I miss a shot as I am waiting for the busy light to turn off. I bought an external flash now which helps, but also has a warning that you shouldn't use it more than 20 or 30 times in 10 mins.

Here's a much better question .... why are you using the internal flash for anything? If I didn't have an external flash (and for many years I didn't) .. I simply won't use any flash. The fact that you have an external flash makes it more mind boggling that you would actually use the internal flash for anything. Hell, if I wasn't scared about the resale value aspect of it, I'd superglue my internal shut.

Bill

Bill Ng wrote in post #3977186
Here's a much better question .... why are you using the internal flash for anything? If I didn't have an external flash (and for many years I didn't) .. I simply won't use any flash. The fact that you have an external flash makes it more mind boggling that you would actually use the internal flash for anything. Hell, if I wasn't scared about the resale value aspect of it, I'd superglue my internal shut.

Bill

Its not that bad, you can get some really good effects with it, like shots of small children with glowing red eyes

Things you can do to speed up the flashes recycle time

1, make sure your battery is well charged
2, make sure your buffer is not full
2a, if your buffer is filling up to fast the reduce the quality of your shots
3, increase the ISO
4, use larger appertures
5, If your using an external flash add a battery pack to it.

I hope this helps you some but if you're using alot of flash please do youself a favour and use your external flash

oh my god-dness

arte u seriosu

there si a warning to not use more than 20-30 times in 10 mins.

the kind of work i have started to get into

is basicaklly red carpet events - taking picturs of sweet celebrities -

sureley my new 580 ex would be capable of taking pic consecutively over a 1-2 hour period

(ofcourse with intervals)


////////////


im yet to use it as i have not had an event just yet to really get into it

neilg wrote in post #3977165
I can see where the confusion came from. Whats confusing is that they use the busy symbol for 2 different situations, so to exactly know where the problem was we needed all the information you can give us.
And sadly, yes you will have to live with it as there is not much we can do about it, I guess canon have good reason for it.

I take lots of photos sometimes with the internal flash, and am also frustrated when I miss a shot as I am waiting for the busy light to turn off. I bought an external flash now which helps, but also has a warning that you shouldn't use it more than 20 or 30 times in 10 mins.

good question

but u do know hat most dslrs come with internal flash yeah?

..

um, i think i was just curious / frustrated by the fac that the recycle time seems so "poor" for todays age.

but i really must star usuing my 580ex series 2 to see how good it really is

Bill Ng wrote in post #3977186
Here's a much better question .... why are you using the internal flash for anything? If I didn't have an external flash (and for many years I didn't) .. I simply won't use any flash. The fact that you have an external flash makes it more mind boggling that you would actually use the internal flash for anything. Hell, if I wasn't scared about the resale value aspect of it, I'd superglue my internal shut.

Bill

hahahah

u wrote:

Things you can do to speed up the flashes recycle time

1, make sure your battery is well charged
2, make sure your buffer is not full
2a, if your buffer is filling up to fast the reduce the quality of your shots
3, increase the ISO
4, use larger appertures
5, If your using an external flash add a battery pack to it.

I hope this helps you some but if you're using alot of flash please do youself a favour and use your external flash


some good point there thanksl mate haha.

i know one thing, iw ont be reducing my quailitu of images,

i do actually use a external battery grip and alwayt use fresh batteries

one thing that confused me,

how do u really empty your buffer? (make sur eits not full u said)

u mean - like dumping my images onto my laptop whenm i have used 2 gif out of my 4 gig memory card for example?

Dellboy wrote in post #3977383
Things you can do to speed up the flashes recycle time

1, make sure your battery is well charged
2, make sure your buffer is not full
2a, if your buffer is filling up to fast the reduce the quality of your shots
3, increase the ISO
4, use larger appertures
5, If your using an external flash add a battery pack to it.

I hope this helps you some but if you're using alot of flash please do youself a favour and use your external flash