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Thread started 18 Sep 2007 (Tuesday) 14:32
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My very non-technical report after playing with a 40D

 
TMR ­ Design
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Sep 18, 2007 17:16 as a reply to  @ post 3958386 |  #16

I'm not actually saying there is no difference in IQ but I'm not hearing about glaring differences in IQ and certainly no one has shown us that ISO 1600 or 3200 is really any better than on the 30D.

I'm also sure there are differences in AF as described by others. I simply said I didn't really notice anything with the lens that was on the camera in the store. Perhaps some lenses are more responsive.

We all justify and equate things differently. My assessment is that for whatever improvement that is offered, it's not enough for me to make the side-grade. I needed there to be a WOW factor and I never felt it. Believe me, I wanted to but it didn't happen.

I don't want to make a change just to keep up or for slight improvements when my photography will benefit much more from other purchases, such as glass and more backgrounds and hardware essentials for my studio. I'll benefit more from that than I will a new camera.


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ed ­ rader
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Sep 18, 2007 17:27 |  #17

TMR Design wrote in post #3958431 (external link)
I'm not actually saying there is no difference in IQ but I'm not hearing about glaring differences in IQ and certainly no one has shown us that ISO 1600 or 3200 is really any better than on the 30D.

I'm also sure there are differences in AF as described by others. I simply said I didn't really notice anything with the lens that was on the camera in the store. Perhaps some lenses are more responsive.

We all justify and equate things differently. My assessment is that for whatever improvement that is offered, it's not enough for me to make the side-grade. I needed there to be a WOW factor and I never felt it. Believe me, I wanted to but it didn't happen.

I don't want to make a change just to keep up or for slight improvements when my photography will benefit much more from other purchases, such as glass and more backgrounds and hardware essentials for my studio. I'll benefit more from that than I will a new camera.

i think canon says that 40d iso is comparable to the 30d.

i bought a 30d a couple days after the 40d was announced and i certainly have no regrets.

no regrets about the 5d either ;)!

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Sep 18, 2007 21:05 |  #18

I never used a 30D, but when I dediced to get a backup for Africa I got the 40D. Only $1,250.00 after selling of the 28-135 that came with it. I shot some this weekend at a Soccer game nearby using the 70-200 f2.8 and 100-400 and focus speed and tracking was excellent. A very competent little tool for not much money.
But as stated above, you should not get something just because it's newer especially if you are happy with what you have.


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Sep 19, 2007 00:45 |  #19

The simple fact that the 40D is slightly larger than the 20D, yet slightly smaller than the 5D was a selling point for me. I have large hands and need a camera that I can grip without it feeling like a small toy. It just seems to have a bit more "heft" I guess you could say. The partial weathersealing, finger groove beneath the shutter release, paintless hotshoe, are all really nice little bonus physical features, and I love everything about the new menu screen, very much like the 1D! And though the larger LCD wasn't a big deal for me when I first heard about it, it is indeed a very welcome feature. I've effectively put Live View to use and it definitely has a place on a DSLR despite how some may feel about it. I think this will be a very useful tool for a lot of shooters, and it was well implemented IMO. I really like the fact that I can change focusing screens and I will definitely be ordering an Ef-S super precision matte. The AF-ON button is also a great addition, though some may prefer to still use the good old fashioned * to separate the metering from the focusing. The good news is Canon gives you the option to go either way and doesn't force the AF-ON down your throat if you don't want to use it. Thanks, Canon! I found that the IQ is typical of any Canon camera, which is a good thing, and it handles noise at high ISO very well. The high ISO shots I took at a recent wedding were very usable and cleaned up really well with very little NR applied. Colors are vivid and bright, and there's a somewhat warmer feeling to the images. I can't quite put my finger on it, but the images are very 5D like in quality (without resorting to pixel peeping). The DiG!C III processor does a damn fine job and I'm satisfied with the quality of images this camera is capable of producing. AF tracking seems to be spot on. I was taking sample shots of oncoming traffic during a fund raising car wash we were having, and this system did not disappoint! For those of you who are concerned about it, the AF tracking works and it works well. And who can complain about a max burst of 6.5 fps, a couple of extra megapixels, an improved buffer (up to 75 jpegs!), automatic ISO, ISO viewable in viewfinder, being able to view selected AF points during playbck, the ability to register up to three camera user settings, 14 bit AD conversion, improved metering and spot metering range, extended Kelvin WB temperature range, brighter viewfinder, multiple exposure mirror lock-up, and a self cleaning sensor? All of which are great little goodies that only compliment this already great camera. And sRAW could definitely come in handy for some applications. Again, I've put this feature to use and it does become very useful when you want to shoot RAW, but have limited memory or don't need super large files to work with. Accidentally erasing all images on the card has been mitigated by having to turn the feature on in the menus, or batch check marking, which is a good thing if want to avoid inadvertently wiping your card clean! And among one of my favorite new features is the common sense and simplicity applied to what functions are assigned to the buttons near the top LCD. Metering is now paired with White Balance, Auto focus with Drive method, and ISO with FEC. Trust me, it makes much more sense this way. The new button layout beneath the LCD was not difficult for me to adjust to, though I must remember that the menu button is still located on the top left corner separate from the rest.

A few things that I could do without are the direct print button, the plethora of automatic Basic Zone shooting modes, and the plastic battery compartment hinge (why they did away with the metal hinge is beyond me - to cut cost ??? ) One minor gripe is the Picture Style button. I wish it was programmable in custom functions so that you can use it to either select Picture Styles, or access the Image Quality or White Balance setting menu like on the 1D series. Not saying you can program those buttons on a 1D, but those buttons are made available to you on the body in a convenient location near the rear LCD.

In short, this may not be the "Wow" factor some folks have hoped for (it certainly is for me), but for what you get for the money, it has really impressed me and is definitely something that I'd consider a great improvement over its predecessors. Not trying to convince any happy 10/20/30D users either way, but just know that there is much more to consider than just what you see on the surface. ;)


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nutsnbolts
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Sep 19, 2007 00:55 |  #20

It has been mentioned here on the forum that if you currently carry a 30D, a 40D isn't any leaps or bounds for you. However, it will be please for the XXXD users and for those who wants to carry a second body that is not already on the XXD series.


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Bollan
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Sep 19, 2007 02:56 |  #21

I have a question for the op. How much how you actually used the 40D?

To me it sounds that you have played with it for a few minutes in a shop. How many shots have you actually taken with it so far? If this is the case that you have just played with it for a few minutes then i think calling the thread "report" is a bit over the top.

To me it sounds like you just was looking for an excuse not liking the 40D. To say that the AF is not better than 30D after testing it with a 28-135mm IS isn't really that much benefit to many of us. It have been quite a while since a new model have been so well received as the 40D.

If your reason to upgrade is the WOW factor then i guess you have to wait rather long before upgrading. Todays DSLR's are so advanced so every new model will have only a few subtle improvements and it would surprise me if any new model released within a year or two can WOW any 30D owner to be honest.

The 30D is a great camera and i wouldn't expect any miracle benefits from an upgrade just minor and nice improvements.



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petiot
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Sep 19, 2007 04:03 |  #22

Bollan wrote in post #3961637 (external link)
I have a question for the op. How much how you actually used the 40D?

To me it sounds that you have played with it for a few minutes in a shop. How many shots have you actually taken with it so far? If this is the case that you have just played with it for a few minutes then i think calling the thread "report" is a bit over the top.

To me it sounds like you just was looking for an excuse not liking the 40D. To say that the AF is not better than 30D after testing it with a 28-135mm IS isn't really that much benefit to many of us. It have been quite a while since a new model have been so well received as the 40D.

If your reason to upgrade is the WOW factor then i guess you have to wait rather long before upgrading. Todays DSLR's are so advanced so every new model will have only a few subtle improvements and it would surprise me if any new model released within a year or two can WOW any 30D owner to be honest.

The 30D is a great camera and i wouldn't expect any miracle benefits from an upgrade just minor and nice improvements.

lol... i agree with you ... we ll have to wait for a while to have a WOW camera from canon. But nikon prooved that eventhough todays SLR are advanced, it is possible to release a body that has more than just incremental upgrade.

Doing incremental upgrade on each release is a politic specific to Canon. We have seen that with the D20-D30 transition. We have been waiting 2 releases to have spot metering (since the 10D) or to have ISO display in the VF. which are dead easy to implement from a technological point of view.

So i think that it is being naive to think that you need technological revolution to have a WOW factor camera. Just making thing the right way (e.g. weather seals, vertical grip etc) would be an improvement for Canon and a WOW factor for us.

regarding the op opinion, i agree: what has changed on the 40D? AF? it doesn't seem to be that much better. All we had so far is subjective opinion that yes, it could be slightly better. Sorry but look at the D300 AF system. that what i call an upgrade.

IQ?? well same here. People are still discussing whether IQ is better compared to 30D. high ISO ... same thing: not better. Body construction? not better (unless you think foam tape is an upgrade). Accessories? the 40D grip doesnt even integrate the AF-ON button.
ohhh yes . Print button. that is a massive upgrade, i agree !! lol.

you said "To me it sounds like you just was looking for an excuse not liking the 40D." well to me it is like if you were trying to convince yourself otherwise. I personally am on the op's side on this one and i am pretty sure that playing with the 40D for few minutes is enough to realize that the 40D is definitely not a MASSIVE upgrade (which is exactely what the op was saying).


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Sep 19, 2007 04:21 |  #23

The massive upgrade you are looking for is called a Canon 1D MK3, If Canon made all the massive UPGRADES you require onto a 30D and called it a 40D and charged the same price as a 40D is now, what would they want the MK 3 for.
You continually compare the 40D to the Nikon D300 where it is almost Twice the price, not even released, and could be a pile of poo, Please stop, when you have HARD facts on the D300 and it is used in the Real World, then state the difference and praise it.
Have you ever actually used a 40D, own one played with one for more than 30 min's in a shop?


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Sep 19, 2007 04:46 |  #24

Robert.
Im not sticking up for the 40D. I love mine, even coming from a 30D and you didnt notice much difference. Fair enough.
But judging by what you have written you missed a lot of new features and improvements. Again, im not sticking up for the 40D, just pointing out that if you are interested in the 40D you do need to spend a bit of time with it to see why a lot (some?) of us do think its a good improvement over the 30D. Things like setting the camera to stop the lens hunting if it cant focus are things i never see mentioned but it may be of use to some people. The Live view and live histogram feature can be useful but by default its not enabled so you might not have got to play with that aspect.
Maybe have a read through the manual to see if any of it is of interest.
IMHO of course.


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Sep 19, 2007 04:56 |  #25

Hi TMR! Some may not need to upgrade and if what you have currently makes you happy, than so be it. It may not be something you need and want. Sometimes cost isn't the justification to upgrade anyway. The 30D is an excellent camera and it takes good pics. I guess when the 60D comes out, it'll be time to upgrade than. =)




  
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Sep 19, 2007 05:54 |  #26

MaDProFF wrote in post #3961861 (external link)
You continually compare the 40D to the Nikon D300 where it is almost Twice the price

No its acutally not... read this

To OP: good optimistic report Robert


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MaDProFF
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Sep 19, 2007 06:09 |  #27

farrukh wrote in post #3962138 (external link)
No its acutally not... read this

To OP: good optimistic report Robert

Canon 40D less than £750-00 now
Grip $ 250 DONT need
ST-E2 $ 210 DONT need
580 EXII $ 410 DONT need
______
$2170


Nikon D300 $1800 IN UK it is £1299
Grip $ 160 would NEED if I moved over
800 Flash $ 315 Would NEED if I moved over

Everyone has different needs, it is actually gonna cost me more than double to move over


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TMR ­ Design
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Sep 19, 2007 06:40 as a reply to  @ farrukh's post |  #28

OK lets see... I wrote a personal report stating I did not own the camera and was going to check it out for aesthetics and feel. I don't go to stores to play with gear so I can then come here to rip it apart and I didn't go with the intention of not liking it.

There is no reason to speculate and interpret my report or what happened as anything other than what I reported. For those of you that think I wanted to NOT like the 40D you couldn't be more wrong.

I love Canon products and I almost purchased the 40D on 2 occasions and I went to the store wanting very badly to love the camera and then make a purchase. I stated very clearly that I liked the camera and found some nice features. Did I thoroughly investigate? no. Did I try every feature and swap lenses? no. I never said I did. I reported on exactly what I did and tried and made it very clear that this was all MY opinion and preference with no desire to convince anyone or sway people.

My report was not like all the 40D and Canon bashing posts, nor was it a 'Canon can do no wrong' post. It was honest and based on an hour with the camera. It was not a review or a technical report used to inform or educate others.

Again, it's all opinion and preference based on my needs, likes, desires, etc. I've read all the spec sheets and am aware of all the numerous features I didn't even mention.

It would be much better if people asked me about the experience rather than speculating about my motives. I never said I was looking for a massive upgrade. All I said was that I (again, me. not you) didn't feel a wow factor, with no stipulation as to what would do that or make me feel the wow factor.

I think a lot of you are making much more out of my post than intended and are defensive about the 40D. It's a fine camera and I recognize the new features and improvements but all I was saying was that for ME I don't feel it's worth it to sell my 30D and come up with the difference to upgrade to a 40D. If I had the extra cash I'd probably just buy one. If I could sell my 30D for nearly the cost of a 40D I'd do it. In the end, selling my 30D and coughing up nearly $500 to upgrade to a camera that I don't really see as an upgrade doesn't make sense.

I respect those that have bought and love the 40D and it would be great if some of you could just relax and appreciate my decision to wait or make a more significant upgrade. I never said that you shouldn't buy the camera. I'm not the one parading around the forums saying Canon sucks, or the 40D sucks, or Canon screwed us over, etc... I haven't said a harsh word about Canon or the new camera and haven't once expressed any of the hostility that some seem to have.


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MaDProFF
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Sep 19, 2007 06:56 |  #29

Robert appreciate you input, though if you read your first post you cannot blame for people to get an impression you had spent some time with the 40D, and read far too much into it. What I saw was a few people anti 40D used your post as to say the 40D is not wort it, not an upgrade etc. comparing it with other camera's etc. and that was what I was not to happy with.


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Bollan
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Sep 19, 2007 07:03 |  #30

petiot wrote in post #3961806 (external link)
you said "To me it sounds like you just was looking for an excuse not liking the 40D." well to me it is like if you were trying to convince yourself otherwise. I personally am on the op's side on this one and i am pretty sure that playing with the 40D for few minutes is enough to realize that the 40D is definitely not a MASSIVE upgrade (which is exactely what the op was saying).

I personally don't need any convincing when it comes to buying new gear, neither excuses :lol:. If i like it i buy it, simple as that.

I'm ever so pleased with my 30D but i still ordered a 40D mostly because of faster FPS and better AF performance.



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My very non-technical report after playing with a 40D
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