Wedding Pricing

Kai wrote in post #3957903
I really did hear what you are saying. I think I kind of got off on a different subject. Sorry.

LOL it's cool!

So how is this for the courtyard package:

3 hours coverage
100 4x6 proofs
Full-Res photos on DVD

$700

To me, listing 800 4x6's ( or even 500 in middle package), seems like a lot to me. Can you guarantee that many, and are all 800 going to be great quality. ? Do you want substandard prints out in the public ? I would rather tell them less and be assurred of good quality, than state more and include lesser picture quality. You can always give more than announced, but never give less!! Just my opinion.

Good point jcpoulin ... although I am confident that I can deliver 800 images in 8 hours, maybe I'll just say "Printed Proofs" and not include a number. What is everyone's thoughts on this?

I have no doubt you can take that many.....but as you experiment and try new stuff...do you want them to see your less than optimal pictures.

I think the starting point at 1400 for 6 hours is good, though I would drop the prints and keep it minimal. You don't want your lowest package to be enticing at all. You want to get people to jump up to your middle or higher package.

$2000 for your second package is a good price... but again, you are giving WAYYYYY too much for it. Drop the prints to something like 2 5x7 for the e-shoot and two 8x12 (I HATE 8x10 with a passion) for the wedding. Drop the signature matte... most have their own ideas anyways. Drop the album altogether. When I look at your $2000 package compared to your $1400 package, all I see is you LOSING OUT. You are giving tons more, and it's all at pretty much LESS than your cost! The time shooting, the time in PP, the time in album design all costs something, and TIME is the MOST valuable thing in any industry. So basically you are making LESS profit than your $1400 package, but working more. Doesn't make sense.

Also keep in mind that albums are not cheap at all! If you present them to your clients as something that's easily thrown together and cheap to produce, they will believe it. If you tell them that it's an ultra-premium book crafted in Italy (they say oooooo to that) and shipped here, of very high quality, lasts 75 years, has thick pages to resist rough handling, and that many of the worlds best photographers also use this book, then they will also believe that. I sell my top album just like I mentioned above and they all agree it's worth the $2800 I charge for them.

What I see here is you are selling with the wrong mentality. You are selling to give value for your dollar. This is not K-mart or Zehrs type of shopping, this is a once in a life event. You gotta sell this as a full experience, not a product per dollar.

You gotta make it so after meeting with you, they'll think, "damn!!! we MUST have Bryan no matter what it costs!! He's awesome and now I'm sooo excited for our wedding and our pictures! If we drink less starbucks for the next 3 months then we can help make up for the $1500 more we spent today than we originally budgeted for!"

The LAST thing you want to do is sell your products by value... then your bride and groom will leave the meeting thinking, "hmmm... soo.... we can get 300 4x6 prints from bryan, but joe's foto said he'll give 600 4x6 prints and shoot for 8 hours and he's only charging $1500. I think joe is a better deal..."

no no no no

I know you are a student, so you may be in the student mentality where you want max value for your dollar, and don't think people will come to you if you aren't a good deal. Well... FORGET ALL THAT!

When people are established in their careers, and are comfortable financially (not even rich... just comfortable) and have gone through the 'student mentality' of value per dollar, their mindsets change. They are now looking for "we know what we want and if it costs a lot, then we'll pay it, because we know we want it." I know when I was a student it was hard for me to comprehend this mentality but it is SOOOOO true and it's out there. The Golden Horseshoe is STUFFED FULL of these people. This is who you want to sell to, to appeal to, to shoot. Evidence of this is everywhere!! Why buy American Eagle when really, department stores have clothes that look similar? Why buy starbucks when 7-11 coffee tastes good too? When I look at the houses north of Lakeshore Rd in St. Catharines, there are a lot of Lexus, BMW, and Benz cars there. Why buy those when a chevy cavalier will also get you from point A to B? You gotta BELIEVE they are out there, and you gotta sell to them.

If I were in your shoes, this is how I would structure my packages.

Package A $1600
4 hours coverage
photos on CD
online gallery

Package B $2000
8 hour coverage
photos on cd
online gallery
ONE hour e-shoot
4 8x12 or 10 5x7
Basic album can be added for $1000 (not a graphi book... more like an asuka)
Premium (graphi) can be added for $3000

Package C $4500
Unlimited coverage
photos on cd
online gallery
ONE hour e-shoot
More prints than B
AMAZING ULTRA PREMIUM Italian-made 20 page custom designed book.

This is all about SELLING THE SIZZLE, not selling the steak. You might look at this list and think it's retarded, but it works. Focus your marketing on selling the sizzle, and you will do well. Bookings might start slower, but the name you are putting out will be known more as high quality than a good deal.

jcpoulin wrote in post #3957972
I have no doubt you can take that many.....but as you experiment and try new stuff...do you want them to see your less than optimal pictures.

Oh yeah, no I know what you're saying. It's more of a safety thing. Although, again, I am confident that I am able to get 800 great images from 8 hours of coverage. I shot last weekend with Toogy for 8 hours and I took 1500 images. I had it narrowed down to 900 before he told me he only wanted 400 from me. So, I am fairly confident in this, but, I agree that maybe I should lower the # just so in case.

Wow Lloyd! Thank you so much for the detailed explanation and all the tips and hints. You have given me LOTS to think about. Do you really think that for getting into the market for the 1st time that these prices are realistic (the ones you mentioned)? Also, I see you don't like the idea of printed proofs ... that is why I was going to offer 300 4" x 6"s for example - they're just proofs. They cost me next to nothing - $0.18 @ COSTCO for example. Not a good idea?

And you are right - I am in the student mindsest, it is hard for me to think out of that right now. I really appreciate the help you have given me!

Listen to Lloyd - he's a smart dude, and gives advice that I need to take to heart!

Also, more is not necessarily better. In fact, I've found the weddings where I have delivered more photos to be frustrating to the clients that have to narrow 800 photos down to 75 for an album. It takes them longer, puts more work on them, and are you really giving them enough of a variety to justify 800 photos (how many photos are going to look pretty similar?). Not to mention the amount of time that you will have to put into editing them all. Edit tighter and your work will look even better.

For an 8 hour package, 480 photos is a photo every minute of their wedding day...

Good point Jamie - I think I'll lower the # of proofs.

Wow, I'm definitely glad that I posted this here. This is the reason I love these boards! You guys rock!

I am just scared that I am going to introduce myself to the market at too high of a price. Or introduce myself to a market I want to be in, with no reputation.

Depends on how much you want to work.

I shot a year of bargain basement weddings ($500 - YIKES), to achieve market penetration and gain experience. Once I had a year of weddings under my belt, I raised my prices by a significant amount, then raised them again this year.

I got 27 weddings at that price my first year, and worked my tail off for less than $14,000. BUT, I got a LOT of experience and built a really nice WOM network that has laid a solid foundation for where my business is now. OTOH, I was way too cheap - I could have started at twice that and booked the same amount of weddings.

On the flip side, I know quite a few photographers that started out at market rate, and have built their business VERY slowly. Sure they matched my gross income in 5 weddings, but they also only shot 5 weddings - I was FAR more experienced after my first year...

Both valid starting strategies, just depends on how much you want to work.

Granted, Bryan, there are a few (trust me you don't want their weddings anyway) who will scoff at your prices..I get a few a year...Don't you have anything "cheaper?" In special situations I can do something, but I've found those are such a headache and hassle it's best to avoid them.

Your prices are good along with what you are offering..

Now, how you going to advertise?

Well my ultimate goal was to book 20 weddings for the 2008 year and then go from there. My plan was to do Wedding Photography exclusively next summer (Spring/Summer/Fall '08) and make a decent amount of money, but get a great reputation established.

I am still a student so I can't really be working like MAD, but, like I said, 20 weddings would be nice.

bcap wrote in post #3958034
Wow Lloyd! Thank you so much for the detailed explanation and all the tips and hints. You have given me LOTS to think about. Do you really think that for getting into the market for the 1st time that these prices are realistic (the ones you mentioned)? Also, I see you don't like the idea of printed proofs ... that is why I was going to offer 300 4" x 6"s for example - they're just proofs. They cost me next to nothing - $0.18 @ COSTCO for example. Not a good idea?

And you are right - I am in the student mindsest, it is hard for me to think out of that right now. I really appreciate the help you have given me!

Bryan, you have shown great talent. You are NOT just like the rest. And you even know that already. So BELIEVE you are worth it and sell YOURSELF, not the # of prints.


You are going to second shoot with Toogy for 3 more weddings? That is at least 5 weddings under your belt for your clients to look at. That is plenty. When I started, I had 12 (yes TWELVE) pictures in my portfolio. I started at $999 and offered no prints, just the disc. After shooting three more weddings, I jacked my minimum price to $2000 and have settled more or less in that ballpark. You wanna keep the 'cheap photographer' phase as short as possible so you don't build a rep for that. And the quality of your first two is probably better than what I showed from my first 5.

I told the same thing to a local couple who started out last year and shot 3 weddings. I knew they had some serious talent so I told them to jack their prices WAAAAY up. They were uneasy about it and kinda surprised, but they eventually did it and the bookings are still coming in like mad, and are thinking of raising prices again. They are now one of the best teams in my local area and are really giving me a run for my money. hahaha. You can walk with it, or you can RUN with it... it's your choice.

And seriously, drop the 4x6 proofs. Offer a print credit but don't include 4x6 proofs outright. It's a PITA. In a better market, people don't feel like they need stuff like that.

Advertising. Phew ...

I am more than open to suggestion, but so far here is what I have come up with:

- I have SEO my site like mad and registered in tons of link exchanges and directories, so, hopefullly within a few months I'll be doing half decent search-engine-wise.

- There is a "Wedding Helper" website that is the 1st link whenenver anything related to "Niagara" and "Wedding" are searched that I will advertise on. It isn't very expensive, and, it's alphabetical, which means I'll be near the top

- I am advertising my blog (which has links to my sites/contacts) on my MSN name (I know it won't do MUCH, but, everyone knows someone getting married, right?) and on my facebook. I'm going to create a facebook group and do some promotions that way.

- I'll be getting Wedding Photography business cards printed (right now I just have them for my sports photography business) and I'll bring them to some local venues. I plan to go chat with a few other wedding-related businesses (i.e. flowers, dresses, etc) and offer to exchange business cards/referrals.

- I'm going to have flyers/business cards at all events I cover for my sports photography business, and include a B&W flyer (cheap $) with every package I deliver (I'll be dealing with almost 3000 athletes this year).

That pretty much concludes what I've thought of thus far - any other ideas?