Need help on learning to shoot full manual...

Good advice thanks i will take some time to get that book and mess around with it...

Here is a suggestion: Instead of trying to control all the variables at once, learn the importance of the aperture-priority mode (Av) first and then the shutter speed-priority mode (Tv).

For example pick a fixed ISO (say 400) and use different apertures as you take several photos of a subject against a busy background. What you will notice is that wider apertures (like f/2.8, f/3.5 or f/4) give you shallow depth of field and blurred background.

You use wide apertures to create stunning images that stand out against a blurred background. Portrait photos oftentimes require wide apertures.

When you want most of your subject to be in focus (such as landscape or a large group of people) you use a narrow aperture like f/11 and f/16. This will give be a very sharp area (the focal point) and relatively sharp areas in front and behind that point.

Fast shutter speed freezes action and slow shutter speed gives a sense of motion. For example if you take a picture of a helicopter in flight, a fast shutter speed makes the rotors look stationary. (Not a winning image.) A slow shutter speed is preferred since the rotors will appear somewhat blurred and give a greater sense of motion. Waterfalls are rivers are usually shot with show shutter speeds to give a pleasing look to the flow of water.

PS. The type of lens you use also affects the depth of field. Telephoto gives a more shallow depth of field compared to a wide angle lens.

chabooky386 wrote in post #3960674
I am having a rough time learning how to perfect the M mode... It doesn't seem to be easy for me... Is there any helpful links I can read on. I google'd some topics but, i can't get anything useful at all...

you can sign up for bryan peterson course called understanding exposure at www.ppsop.com Im a "graduate" of his course and i highly recommend hos course.

windoze

tonybear007 wrote in post #3965670
Here is a suggestion: Instead of trying to control all the variables at once, learn the importance of the aperture-priority mode (Av) first and then the shutter speed-priority mode (Tv).

I second that suggestion.

To be quite honest, I'd like to introduce a heretic thought into this noble thread here ...

I don't understand what you need M for anyway! There. I said it.

OK, I understand it, and there are some things you can only do with M, ...

... but for 'normal shooting' I find
- AV mode
- coupled with deliberate selection of the spot to meter (e.g. according to the suggestion in Peterson's book)
- and with dialing in the needed exposure compensation
much more useful.

My opinion ... do to what Peterson suggests ... select your metering spot, choose Aperture, ISO, and then move the dial until the 'exposure needle' is in the dead center for a 'correct exposure' might help you to get more nimble with changing the settings of your camera, but it will not necessarily increase your photographic understanding tremendously.

On the contrary, if I have to scr*w around with all the settings for every image, I am afraid I might use some images where fast reacion is key.

Guess that opinion marks me as an ignoramus, huh?

Best regards,
Andy

In my opinion, one who is really trying to learn manually-controlled photography should invest in a good handheld light meter and use it. The various choices for aperture, shutter speed and ISO are much more visible and understandable on a handheld meter such as my Sekonic L-358.

In the learning process, I suggest using the handheld meter as the primary light measurement tool and observing what the camera's meter does after you have set the variables according to the handheld meter. You can learn a heck of a lot about the way the camera's meter "sees" things this way.

Skip,

that makes sense to me.

But I'm not that sophisticated (yet).

Best regards,
Andy

Andy_T wrote in post #3966127
Guess that opinion marks me as an ignoramus, huh?

Nah - not an ignoramus..... Just someone who's "stuck on modern automation". We old farts grew up with equipment that had no automation. Heck, we even had to remember to wind the film after each shot before we could get to the next.

I very distinctly remember using one of my Nikon F's (about the most "manual" of cameras ever invented, as I had a standard non-metering viewfinder and no motor film drive on mine) at an automobile race in England way back in '66 or so. There was a Mustang that I saw off in the distance that was smoking quite badly. I set my exposure, focused, and took four shots - adjusting the focus manually and winding the film manually for each shot - in less than two seconds. All four shots were in perfect focus, perfectly exposed, and I still have the negatives and contact prints tucked away. I think I even have a set of prints that I made from that series somewhere as well.

While it seems like I am boasting with the above paragraph, it really isn't. That's the kind of thing photographers did all the time when shooting action stuff back in those days. It was not difficult after you practised a little. You can do the same thing with today's cameras in manual too. You just wouldn't have to wind the digital film.

Andy_T wrote in post #3966127
I second that suggestion.

To be quite honest, I'd like to introduce a heretic thought into this noble thread here ...

I don't understand what you need M for anyway! There. I said it.

OK, I understand it, and there are some things you can only do with M, ...

... but for 'normal shooting' I find
- AV mode
- coupled with deliberate selection of the spot to meter (e.g. according to the suggestion in Peterson's book)
- and with dialing in the needed exposure compensation
much more useful.

My opinion ... do to what Peterson suggests ... select your metering spot, choose Aperture, ISO, and then move the dial until the 'exposure needle' is in the dead center for a 'correct exposure' might help you to get more nimble with changing the settings of your camera, but it will not necessarily increase your photographic understanding tremendously.

On the contrary, if I have to scr*w around with all the settings for every image, I am afraid I might use some images where fast reacion is key.

Guess that opinion marks me as an ignoramus, huh?

Best regards,
Andy

Hi Andy,

I just completed a course with Bryan and he would have us first chose the aperture ( got to get that creatively correct exposure ) and then "close" it with the shutter speed ( from the appropriate place to meter ).
Also, just a side note regarding ISO and WB:
Bryan always shoot at ISO 100 unless absolutely necessary and he ALWAYS shoots with his (Nikon) set to cloudy WB.

troy

Troy, two things here.

windoze wrote in post #3966203
I just completed a course with Bryan and he would have us first chose the aperture ( got to get that creatively correct exposure ) and then "close" it with the shutter speed ( from the appropriate place to meter ).

So you increased your skill at turning the little wheel with your right thumb, huh?

Well, there are many who do this. Most of them use

Don't get me wrong here.
I do not want to ridicule neither your seminar nor Brian Peterson. I love his book.

But ... I still do not understand how the little act of turning that dial until the 'needle' is in the center makes me a better photographer.
My camera is perfectly capable of doing that on its own if I put it in 'AV' mode.

And I can dedicate my time and effort to selecting what to frame and where to meter.

But maybe I'm just lazy.

Best regards,
Andy

PS: Don't know about Nikon white balance, but my 20D definitely gives better results if I do a custom white balance.
Not that it would change much, as I shoot RAW anyway, but it makes the conversion a bit easier.

Andy_T wrote in post #3966291
Troy, two things here.

So you increased your skill at turning the little wheel with your right thumb, huh?

Well, there are many who do this. Most of them use



Don't get me wrong here.
I do not want to ridicule neither your seminar nor Brian Peterson. I love his book.

But ... I still do not understand how the little act of turning that dial until the 'needle' is in the center makes me a better photographer.
My camera is perfectly capable of doing that on its own if I put it in 'AV' mode.

And I can dedicate my time and effort to selecting what to frame and where to meter.

But maybe I'm just lazy.

Best regards,
Andy

PS: Don't know about Nikon white balance, but my 20D definitely gives better results if I do a custom white balance.
Not that it would change much, as I shoot RAW anyway, but it makes the conversion a bit easier.

Andy,

i was going to add but i got side tracked.....
You are correct, but remember that Bryan comes from the "Old School and I think he was kinda leary about Av mode but that has changed!!!
Bryan now acknowledges and swears by Av mode. He is very positive about Nikon's Matrix Metering and he now says and I quote him:

"I have allowed myself the freedom of shooting in Aperture-Priority mode and I feel truly liberated by the results. Many of the images ........ were shot in Aperture-Priority mode and that for me is one of the biggest milestones I have ever crossed, photographically speaking."

He maintain that we should still use manual mode for those difficult metering situations...
So you are 100% correct in your response.

troy

Andy--I second everything you have said. My camera seldom leaves AV, and I don't feel any less macho for not shooting in M.

windoze wrote in post #3966354
Andy,

i was going to add but i got side tracked.....
You are correct, but remember that Bryan comes from the "Old School and I think he was kinda leary about Av mode but that has changed!!!
Bryan now acknowledges and swears by Av mode. He is very positive about Nikon's Matrix Metering and he now says and I quote him:

"I have allowed myself the freedom of shooting in Aperture-Priority mode and I feel truly liberated by the results. Many of the images ........ were shot in Aperture-Priority mode and that for me is one of the biggest milestones I have ever crossed, photographically speaking."

He maintain that we should still use manual mode for those difficult metering situations...
So you are 100% correct in your response.


troy

Or bracket

Yes, that's the easy way out with digital.

Set camera to 5 fps ... set +-1 EV bracketing ... fire away.
Select the best image later in post-processing (or do an HDR if needed).

I have to add, one important aspect of using AV, selecting where to meter and using Peterson's suggestions (e.g. metering off the green leaves and add -2/3 EV when shooting in a forest, if I remember correctly) is to put AF on the '*' button.

Then you have the freedom to de-couple AF from metering and can select which point to meter from.

Best regards,
Andy

Back on topic ... Chabooky386 ... go get that book.

It's good.

Best regards,
Andy

PS ... Your screen name is ... so ... 80's

Andy_T wrote in post #3966291
Troy, two things here.


So you increased your skill at turning the little wheel with your right thumb, huh?


Well, there are many who do this. Most of them use




Don't get me wrong here.
I do not want to ridicule neither your seminar nor Brian Peterson. I love his book.

But ... I still do not understand how the little act of turning that dial until the 'needle' is in the center makes me a better photographer.
My camera is perfectly capable of doing that on its own if I put it in 'AV' mode.

And I can dedicate my time and effort to selecting what to frame and where to meter.

But maybe I'm just lazy.

Best regards,
Andy

PS: Don't know about Nikon white balance, but my 20D definitely gives better results if I do a custom white balance.
Not that it would change much, as I shoot RAW anyway, but it makes the conversion a bit easier.

Your camera in Av mode is perfectly capable of placing needle in the center, but it is perfectly dumb in judging WHICH PART of that image has to have that needle in the middle.

If it is not important for the particular image, you are lucky: Av will do just as fine as M.
But if it is not the case - if the point of interest is not the whole image, or it is not in the middle - you’ll have a problem.
EC will have to be applied.
That means guessing, shooting, chimping the histogram, readjusting EC, shooting, chimping, etc.

Little act of turning dial until the needle is in the center will make you better photographer in such instances.

Instead of measuring the whole image or just its center and then compensating exposure for the particular point of interest, you’ll just have to meter off that specific point and align the needle.

The point of shooting Manual is not in placing the needle in the middle; the point is in knowing WHAT to meter off.
In another words, WHERE to point your camera to get the read out from the meter, that has to be in the middle.

And THAT is what 'Understanding Exposure' is trying to teach new photographers!