Approve the Cookies
This website uses cookies to improve your user experience. By using this site, you agree to our use of cookies and our Privacy Policy.
OK
Forums  •   • New posts  •   • RTAT  •   • 'Best of'  •   • Gallery  •   • Gear
Guest
Forums  •   • New posts  •   • RTAT  •   • 'Best of'  •   • Gallery  •   • Gear
Register to forums    Log in

 
FORUMS Cameras, Lenses & Accessories Canon Digital Cameras 
Thread started 02 Oct 2007 (Tuesday) 10:24
Search threadPrev/next
sponsored links (only for non-logged)

Should I keep this used 30D?

 
tmcman
Goldmember
Avatar
4,409 posts
Gallery: 9 photos
Likes: 56
Joined Apr 2007
Location: NJ
     
Oct 02, 2007 10:24 |  #1

I bought a used 30D on ebay.
I tested it against my old XT using the same L lens.
I told the seller it was soft and wanted to return it.
He said that was normal for the 30D.
I'm including our two emails (name removed) and the sample pix.
The yellowish one is the 30D and the whiter is the XT.

Can I get some expert opinion on the question:
Is this on OK 30D worth the 700 bucks I paid?
Is it a problem I should send it to Canon to fix since the price was low?
Should I send it back to the seller?
Is there something I'm doing wrong with the cam?

PS. I applied Photoshop CS2 Smart Sharpen, 2 pixels and 100%, and it did not remove the problem.

Thanks for your help.

Dear Seller,
Got the camera on Friday.
According to me the camera is very soft and I would like to return it.
I have attached two photos taken with the same lens, a Canon EF 17-40 L.
The one was taken with my present camera, the Canon Digital Rebel XT
and the other was taken with the 30D I received from you.
These are 100% crops of a small portion of the picture for comparison.
The 30D should have at least as much sharpness as the XT.
I have tried other shots and they are all similar.
Sincerely, Harry

Harry,
This is quite normal. The camera manufacturers have built the consumer DSLR's eg. Canon rebel XT and Nikon D40 to have fairly high in-camera sharpening, under the assumption that consumers want sharp out of the camera pictures without any adjustments. The pro level cameras, e.g. Canon 30D and higher generally do not use in-camera sharpening or other adjustments, under the assumption that these are pro users who will use photoshop or other programs to tweak the images out of the camera where they have more control over adjustments. Many people experience this phenomenon. I understand that many people use "unsharpen mask" in photoshop to adjust sharpness of their pictures.
Regards, Seller


HOSTED PHOTO
please log in to view hosted photos in full size.



HOSTED PHOTO
please log in to view hosted photos in full size.


Comments, Questions, Observations Welcome
Fuji X-T2, 18-55mm, Gitzo 1541 w/ Markins M10 ballhead.
"Art always shows itself by doing much with few and simple things." Arthur Wesley Dow

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
gjl711
Wait.. you can't unkill your own kill.
Avatar
57,738 posts
Likes: 4072
Joined Aug 2006
Location: Deep in the heart of Texas
     
Oct 02, 2007 10:28 |  #2

Sounds fishy to me as my XTi images still need sharpening anyway, but you can check the claim. Compare the raw images. To me the 30D looks OOF.


Not sure why, but call me JJ.
I used to hate math but then I realised decimals have a point.
.
::Flickr:: (external link)
::Gear::

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
buddy4344
OM System Ambassador
Avatar
1,693 posts
Gallery: 412 photos
Best ofs: 14
Likes: 2174
Joined Nov 2006
Location: Allentown, PA
     
Oct 02, 2007 10:29 |  #3

hmmm, lots of stuff here. Don't know how you shot this, but if jpeg, both cameras do some processing of the image. If set for action, landscape, etc. both will also further process the image...but even in raw, the image should be sharper than what I am seeing here!


Buddy4344

OM System Ambassador, Gear: Olympus OM-1 and EM1X, Olympus/Zuiko Lenses: 150-400mm f/4.5, 40-150mm f/2.8, 12-40 f/2.8, Oly 2x and 1.4x TCon, Kiboko 30L and 22L+

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
TMR ­ Design
Cream of the Crop
Avatar
23,883 posts
Likes: 12
Joined Feb 2006
Location: Huntington Station, NY
     
Oct 02, 2007 10:33 as a reply to  @ buddy4344's post |  #4

Regardless of whether there is anything wrong with the camera, the seller is blowing smoke up your a**.

He is either just bulls*itting you or like so many, he thinks he is a tehnical guy with all the answers, when in fact he seems to know very little.


Robert
RobertMitchellPhotogra​phy (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
prime80
Goldmember
Avatar
2,394 posts
Gallery: 4 photos
Likes: 83
Joined Mar 2005
Location: Harmony, FL
     
Oct 02, 2007 10:36 |  #5

Image quality between the two should be identical. "Sharpness" typically is not going to be a factor of the body, but of the lens. I would try another test or two and use identical settings with the cameras. You're using Program/f4/.5s on the XT and Av/f8/1.6s on the 30D. 1.6s is a long exposure time that allows a lot of movement potential in the image. It also looks like focus is off on the 30D image. Set up a shot in brighter light and use similar settings on both cameras to test.


John
R6, EF 100-400 L IS II, EF 24-70 L II, EF 85 f/1.8
Full Gear List

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
squashed
Goldmember
Avatar
4,317 posts
Gallery: 78 photos
Likes: 3201
Joined Oct 2006
Location: MidEastCali
     
Oct 02, 2007 10:37 |  #6

His reply is flatout Bulls**t !! Sounds like a salesman to me.


Done with Numbers. Own the X and the R
http://www.garyyoungph​otography.com (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
TMR ­ Design
Cream of the Crop
Avatar
23,883 posts
Likes: 12
Joined Feb 2006
Location: Huntington Station, NY
     
Oct 02, 2007 10:40 as a reply to  @ squashed's post |  #7

Try to shoot something outside, plenty of light, tripod mounted, and 1/60 or faster and do a direct comparison. See what you get.


Robert
RobertMitchellPhotogra​phy (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
scrumpy
Goldmember
Avatar
3,664 posts
Likes: 1
Joined Jun 2004
Location: Dorset, England
     
Oct 02, 2007 11:37 |  #8

The XT shot is 1/2" at f4, no flash
The 30D shot is 1/6" at f8, no flash

I think both shots are suffering camera shake.


David: Canon EOS 400D - Canon EF70-300mm f/4-55.6 IS USM -Sigma 17-70 F2.8-4.5 DC Macro - Sigma 50-500 'Bigma' - Speedlite 580EX 11 - Better Beamer
Have patience. All things are difficult before they become easy ;)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
ST77
Member
Avatar
122 posts
Joined Aug 2007
Location: San Antonio, TX
     
Oct 02, 2007 11:49 |  #9

scrumpy wrote in post #4050002 (external link)
The XT shot is 1/2" at f4, no flash
The 30D shot is 1/6" at f8, no flash

I think both shots are suffering camera shake.

I have to agree,

The only way to compare these camera's will be to set them both up on a tripod in manual mode using the same settings. Remove as my human error as possible from the test.


My Gear: 1D Mark III,30D, 24-105 f/4L IS, 70-200 f/2.8L IS, 85mm 1.8, 100mm 2.8 Macro, 580ex II Flash 430ex Flash lowepro AW 300.

My spot on the web: www.st-77photo.com (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Jon_Doh
Senior Member
Avatar
878 posts
Gallery: 1 photo
Likes: 68
Joined Apr 2007
Location: Pyongyang, North Korea
     
Oct 02, 2007 12:11 |  #10

Looks like a front focusing problem, which some cameras have. It can be adjusted, but at a cost if it is out of warranty.


I use a Kodak Brownie

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
pcunite
Goldmember
Avatar
1,481 posts
Likes: 3
Joined Apr 2007
     
Oct 02, 2007 12:13 |  #11

tmcman wrote in post #4049537 (external link)
I bought a used 30D on ebay.
I tested it against my old XT using the same L lens.
I told the seller it was soft and wanted to return it.

The seller may not know much about cameras...

The issue looks at first like Camera shake so take a picture at 1/100 or faster. Next even if your picture is still soft it may be the lens. Just because it worked well on the XT does not mean the 30D is out of spec. Maybe the XT was. In any event you have a fine camera and a major step up from the XT non-cross-type non-high-precision AF.

I don't think the seller meant you any harm.




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Michael_Lambert
-ColdMember-
Avatar
2,426 posts
Likes: 2
Joined Apr 2005
Location: Bradford, Ontario, Canada
     
Oct 02, 2007 12:15 |  #12

Agree'd

Head out side in some good natural bright light use Manual mode setup the camera on a tripod using the manual setting set acordingly, And use a decent sized subject ( object that does not move) and use the timmer on the camera's Ensure both are the exact same settings shot in RAW and post both the unprocessed raw files.


My Canon Gear
Michael Lambert Photography (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
segasaturn
Senior Member
849 posts
Likes: 1
Joined Oct 2006
Location: Honolulu, Hawaii
     
Oct 02, 2007 12:27 |  #13

Send us the link. Because of this close community, I'm sure most of us will side with you hearing the information presented. However, if there was specific wording in the auction (such as "as-is"), or you're dealing with someone with 100% positive feedback, we might look at the situation differently. Nothing wrong with posting a link here as we're here to help you solve this problem, not bombard the seller with emails.




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
superdiver
Cream of the Crop
Avatar
9,862 posts
Likes: 5
Joined Jan 2006
Location: Ketchikan Alaska
     
Oct 02, 2007 12:49 |  #14

The seller is telling you a line. The 30 is sharper then the picture you posted.

That being said, it could have been your tech, or the lens even. To just blame the camera is silliness at this point without more CONCRETE info. It COULD be the camera, but the pictures you posted dont tell us that for sure....


40D, davidalbertsonphotography.com
Newbie still learning

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
TMR ­ Design
Cream of the Crop
Avatar
23,883 posts
Likes: 12
Joined Feb 2006
Location: Huntington Station, NY
     
Oct 02, 2007 12:52 as a reply to  @ superdiver's post |  #15

It certainly could be the camera but for the seller to proclaim that that is the design and it should appear soft is pure silliness.


Robert
RobertMitchellPhotogra​phy (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
sponsored links (only for non-logged)

3,048 views & 0 likes for this thread, 22 members have posted to it.
Should I keep this used 30D?
FORUMS Cameras, Lenses & Accessories Canon Digital Cameras 
AAA
x 1600
y 1600

Jump to forum...   •  Rules   •  Forums   •  New posts   •  RTAT   •  'Best of'   •  Gallery   •  Gear   •  Reviews   •  Member list   •  Polls   •  Image rules   •  Search   •  Password reset   •  Home

Not a member yet?
Register to forums
Registered members may log in to forums and access all the features: full search, image upload, follow forums, own gear list and ratings, likes, more forums, private messaging, thread follow, notifications, own gallery, all settings, view hosted photos, own reviews, see more and do more... and all is free. Don't be a stranger - register now and start posting!


COOKIES DISCLAIMER: This website uses cookies to improve your user experience. By using this site, you agree to our use of cookies and to our privacy policy.
Privacy policy and cookie usage info.


POWERED BY AMASS forum software 2.58forum software
version 2.58 /
code and design
by Pekka Saarinen ©
for photography-on-the.net

Latest registered member was a spammer, and banned as such!
2681 guests, 167 members online
Simultaneous users record so far is 15,144, that happened on Nov 22, 2018

Photography-on-the.net Digital Photography Forums is the website for photographers and all who love great photos, camera and post processing techniques, gear talk, discussion and sharing. Professionals, hobbyists, newbies and those who don't even own a camera -- all are welcome regardless of skill, favourite brand, gear, gender or age. Registering and usage is free.