Why would i need full frame?

I appreciate many prob are aspiring to own 5ds and 1ds etc but why would I need it.... unless I was a pro

I can get as wide as I want with my sigma 10 to 22mm


the other end of the spectrum I can get longer because of the 1.6 crop¿is it longer or does it jjust appear longer or would a same mpixel cam with full frame cropped to that image I get with 1.6 get the same image?

I'm looking at upgrading and thinking 30d will do me just fine...

I think the reason people opt for full frame varies quite a lot.

Technically, the low light noise performance of full frame can make it worthwhile for a lot of people. It does depend on what sort of shooting you are going to do. When you can push up the ISO and still maintain quality, it really does open up your options for what you can do.

I was shooting some dance a few weeks ago and, due to the setup, I ended up having to use ISO1600 and between f/1.4 and f/2.8 to get any useable action shots.

The results, while clearly not as 'pure' as they could have been with better lighting were certainly acceptable. I haven't used the 30D but I know the 400D would not have a chance in the same situation, partially because of the full frame performance.

is that a matter of it being full frame or that the time and money gone into developing the great high iso system the full frame camera has as its higher up the product line?

u think they'll issue a crop camera with same quality as a non crop?

I can't say why you'd need to, but for me, the attractions include a larger, brighter viewfinder, ideally with 100% coverage; lower noise due to larger photosites; and the ability to utilise the full field provided by EF lenses (including all L's).

wonder if they'll produce a crop with features of 5d iso etc?

to me from what u say crop is an advantage more than disadvantage....

can anyone answer what I said about the full fram croppe to 1.6x one the same mp rating being same as a 1.6 crop sensor?

I think the biggest advantage for me using FF is the additional DOF control.

With a APS-C camera a f1.4 prime would only give you equivalent DOF as a FF camera @ f2.2. This can be quite significant when you want to get creative.

Tobiah wrote in post #4054892
wonder if they'll produce a crop with features of 5d iso etc?

Without differences in the technology of the sensor, improved noise comes with larger photosites. To get the 5D noise vs. ISO performance on a cropped sensor by using larger photosites would mean a drop in resolution, and that would probably turn more people off than improved noise performance would attract.

It's all in what you consider important - different people will see different advantages and disadvantages.

I think I've read that the 40D or 400D would have more pixels on target than a 5D cropped to the same field.

(If I'm wrong, I'm always happy to be corrected - that's how I learn! )

I believe that if you cropped a 5D image to the same FOV as a 30D at the same FL that the 30D image would have more pixels. This would be the case even more with the 40D as it has an even greater pixel density.

For people utilizing the long end of the focal lengths crop cameras are a benefit as it helps you get a higher resolution shot than you'd get on a FF camera with the same lens. It will help you get great reach with less cost as to get the same reach on a FF you'd have to spend big bucks on super telephotos.

For the wide end of the spectrum the FF cameras are great because every lens is just that much wider. You asked why does it matter when you have a 10-22. Well it matters because the 16-35L II is a much better lens than the 10-22 in terms of IQ, speed, build and weather sealing. That's why it's 2.5 times the price of the 10-22. Also, if you want to use a fisheye lense you won't get the full benefit of it on a crop camera.

Besides the wide-angle benefit, FF sensors have a lower signal-to-noise ratio (SNR) which means they'll exhibit lower noise especially in high ISO settings. I'm not an electronics expert but I'd imagine that no matter how much they improve the SNR of the crops that the quality of the FF will increase as well with the FF always having an advantage. The benefit of the FF photosites has to do with their physical size so in order to have the same benefit in a crop camera the crop sensors would have to have less pixels, in other words they'd have to have the same pixel density of a FF sensor.

Tobiah wrote in post #4054786
I appreciate many prob are aspiring to own 5ds and 1ds etc but why would I need it.... unless I was a pro

I can get as wide as I want with my sigma 10 to 22mm

Thats fine if one wants to stick with lenses like the sigma 10-22mm. Personally, my switch would be due to getting wider with some of my favorite glass: Canon 17-40mm / 35mm 1.4 / 50mm 1.4 / 85mm 1.8 / and even get a bit wider with my 70-200 IS. If your not particular to some specific glass, then you are probably fine with a 1.6 crop camera, there are lenses out there that will achieve wide for you. The DOF has already been mentioned.

I am considering a 5D to compliment my 30D's and my glass. I also like the noise control of the 5D at ISO 3200. For me it would be getting the glass I already own and love to go wider, and in a sense, using my glass the way it was meant to be used. Of course this response is very subjective. To each their own.

didn't realise abot the dof... so is it not as fast also ie 1.4 being 2.2 did u say? so is this more pronounced at f2.8/?


why is this the case? thanks

so 5d gets me better bokeh?

Tobiah wrote in post #4055054
didn't realise abot the dof... so is it not as fast also ie 1.4 being 2.2 did u say? so is this more pronounced at f2.8/?

why is this the case? thanks

so 5d gets me better bokeh?

Methinks you didn't quite understand about the DOF.

A larger format (size of the film frame or digital sensor) will produce a shallower depth of field with a given focal length, aperture, and camera-to-subject distance. Many folks are striving to have a shallow depth of field to isolate their subject(s) from the background. Thus, the larger format (the "full-frame" 35mm film format) enables them to do this a little more than the smaller (APS-C) format.

The format has no effect whatsoever on exposure relative to the aperture used. f/1.4 on either camera format will provide the very same exposure (assuming the ISO and shutter speeds are also the same, of course).

The "bokeh" (non-measurable quality of the out-of-focus background) is primarily a function of the lens being used and the aperture setting being used with that lens. It really has nothing to do with the format.

Tobiah wrote in post #4055054
didn't realise abot the dof... so is it not as fast also ie 1.4 being 2.2 did u say? so is this more pronounced at f2.8/?

why is this the case? thanks

so 5d gets me better bokeh?

I didn't think about that either. Is that true? Surely this is all in lens? I.e, if this is how the DOF is in lens (at x focal length and aperture), the same image is projected onto the sensor...you just see less of it??

Speed wise, they're the same.

SkipD: You got there first

Tobiah wrote in post #4055054
didn't realise abot the dof... so is it not as fast also ie 1.4 being 2.2 did u say? so is this more pronounced at f2.8/?


why is this the case? thanks

so 5d gets me better bokeh?

To put it another way, FF systems allow you to create images that have more 'developed' or obvious bokeh. For example, using a 50mm lens on a 1.6X crop (or APS-C) camera gives you an image with an angle of view of 80mm. Now imagine that you have an 80mm lens on a FF camera. Both images have the same field of view. However the two major differences would be:

1) Greater degree of perspective compression in the image from the FF camera (and less of the background being included in the image, hence a more 'simplified' and non-distracting background).
2) DOF is reduced in the FF image and hence more obvious bokeh.

Hence, if you're only looking at things from an 'angle of view' point of view, then there's little advantage to getting say, a 16-35mm lens on a FF camera over a 10-22mm lens on a 1.6X crop camera.

SkipD wrote in post #4055106
Methinks you didn't quite understand about the DOF.

A larger format (size of the film frame or digital sensor) will produce a shallower depth of field with a given focal length, aperture, and camera-to-subject distance. Many folks are striving to have a shallow depth of field to isolate their subject(s) from the background. Thus, the larger format (the "full-frame" 35mm film format) enables them to do this a little more than the smaller (APS-C) format.

Ditto!
I bought a 5D a few days ago for that reason ...