Noise and camera age

Maybe a stupid question but is there any relationship between camera actuations and noise?

My 20D is currently about 60,000 clicks and the files are noiser (at any ISO) than they were when the camera was younger.

Any clues?
Thanks,
Mike

Sensor noise is quite unrelated to the amount of actuations, but it may suffer some aging effects. But I do doubt they'd be overly noticeable, if at all.

Sure you haven't changed some noise reduction parameters in either your camera (JPEG output), or in the RAW processing software defaults?

cctsm wrote in post #4084010
Sensor noise is quite unrelated to the amount of actuations, but it may suffer some aging effects. But I do doubt they'd be overly noticeable, if at all.

Sure you haven't changed some noise reduction parameters in either your camera (JPEG output), or in the RAW processing software defaults?

Camera settings are the same as always and I use and older version of DPP and process my RAW the way I always do.

So still a mystery.
Thanks,
Mike

I don't know...I've never heard of a sensor putting out more noise as it ages. Are you sure about your conclusion? Remember that the ambient temp can have an effect on noise. Warmer shooting conditions at high ISO can and will produce more noise.

are you sure its not because youve seen all the new age cameras with less noise and now your really assessing your 20ds noise more?

20d really isn't that old.

ed rader

ask a stupid question get a stupid answer

Are you using the same lens*?

*Disclaimer: Regardless of whether or not you are using the same lens I have no actual educated response to your situation but it may or may not be a factor worth considering...

I've long had a sneaking suspicion that my 1D and D60 were both getting noisier as they got older (as well as hot pixels getting worse). Canon was asked in some interview a fair while ago (I can't remember where), how long they could expect sensors to last, and they dodged the question, which made me nervous. Nothing would surprise me

Dave

mmahoney: oh come on, just admit that you're craving for the 40D, you just need a plausible story for your wife...

Seriously though, I don't think the actuations-noise connection is far from the truth, I would assume the sensor doesn't just die, period, but it's dying, deteriorating slowly. I've seen some interesting images that my friend's old HP850 has produced, and I'm sure that the sensor certainly has a lifespan, and it's surely not human life long.

I picked up my 350D in Sept. of '05 and have about 15K clicks with it. I dropped it once while being rushed into an elevator in Tokyo, broke the filter, but the camera still runs fine.

The images it produces now are as sharp as the lens that I use. In fact, and I rather hate to say it, but I think my 350D is sharper than my 40D with my 70-200 f/2.8L IS. Damn, I really hate to say that.

I don't think that sensors go soft with age. I do believe they can fail, much like any other chip, be it memory or other. Perhaps your body needs a very thorough cleaning, all contacts, all pins checked, etc?

Best of luck there.

Michael

Thanks for all replies and suggestions .. first the files are certainly noiser, and it's been noticed by both myself and others. So it's not my seeing newer bodies with better sensors with lower inherent noise.

Although I won't need much more prodding to get a 40D

My lens lineup is basically the same with one exception so we can rule out lenses.

Temperature is a factor, and to a surprising extent .. I've shot hockey at 3200 and the files are cleaner than the same ISO at summer temps. But I'm comparing equal temperature files here.

I at first thought maybe it was my computer LCD screen and had basically been ignoring it. But yesterday I posted some recent wedding pics and someone asked me what was up with all the grain.

These are relatively low ISO files .. 200-400. And again the body mileage is just under 60,000. I've used 20D's with higher mileage and not seen the problem with them.

I'm going to send the body into Canon for a clean and check and also ask them to out the noise thing .. it could be related to the electronics somewhere.
Thanks again for the replies.
Mike

Come on guys, there are no stupid questions here.

Maybe it actually does seem to be getting noisier. Does anyone have actual proof that it can't get noisier? I'd be interested in to the answer to the OP question myself. This is a great question, and a much fresher one than the usual "40D for $650! Is this is scam?" threads.

mmahoney wrote in post #4083981
My 20D is currently about 60,000 clicks and the files are noiser (at any ISO) than they were when the camera was younger.

Any clues?
Thanks,
Mike

Noise comes from the electronics on both the sensor and also the associated electronics. As electronics age, oxidation between the various connections such as the pins of the sensor and the connector, and various other connectors, can increase in resistance thus introducing more noise. In addition, due to substrate migration and crystalline changes that occur in just about all capacitors the various components of the chips themselves can change characteristics which can easily introduce more noise than when new.

So maybe it’s time to tell the wife that due to crystalline changes and substrate migration, you need to upgrade your camera.

Are you sure your new 20D image files are properly exposed? He did not post any example images. I doubt Canon will find anything wrong with his camera.