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Thread started 09 Oct 2007 (Tuesday) 11:36
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I am new, stupid and want your help!

 
gizmo3
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Oct 09, 2007 11:36 |  #1

Please.
I am a football mom. I shoot Friday night games under the worst lighting imaginable.
I have been readng here, but honestly I can't afford another lens right now.
I am using a Canon Rebel XTI. I am using a EF 75-300 lens. I also hjave a Speedlite 430EX.
I am shooting on manual 1600 ISo with the light setting at bright.
I don't understand a lot of the lingo you are using here. So please if you offer help, do it idiot laymans terms.
What can I do to reduce the blur?
I know buy an image stablizing lens. Again, I am out of gas when it comes to money right now. We have 4 more games left, all on Friday nights. I am down on the field with the boys walking back and forth. I am not usin a tripod because Canon sent me to B&H and B&H says it is a waste of money I need this 1000 plus lens.
I am paying attention to any suggestions you all are willing to offer me.
I am missing out some really great shots here.




  
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MaDProFF
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Oct 09, 2007 11:44 |  #2

:( you need a lens that is F2.8 or faster, can you shoot at H iso 3200 on the XTI, I not even sure what model that is, but truth is you are always going to have a too slower shutter speed that is what is causing the motion blur

Surprised they even let you use a flash light, but that will only help when they are very close up.

Sorry :(,,, you are picking on the part or photography that needs good equipment hence money to get the results you are looking for. If you are really desperate, I would go and try and find a 2nd hand 85mm F1.8 it will get you the closer shots, and you could crop a bit, it is better than nothing


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nicksan
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Oct 09, 2007 11:48 |  #3

For low light stopping-the-action shooting you will need a "fast" enough lens (i.e. lens with wider aperture/lens that can use F-Stop number) to give you the shutter speeds required to stop motion blur. (typically 1/250 and faster I would guess)

Your 75-300 isn't known as a "fast" lens.
Image Stabilization won't help you stop subject motion, only handshake.

Lots of folks use the EF 85mm f1.8 lens for indoor action shooting, however this probably isn't long enough for your needs.

Another option would be EF 135L f2 but that's pricey. So is the 70-200 f2.8.

What do you mean by "light setting on bright"? Not sure what you mean by that.

You could also shoot in burst mode (spray and pray) to see if that helps. AI Servo?

Perhaps someone else can chime in...however I would say there are certain limitations based on the gear, especially if you have crummy lighting conditions.

Dim lighting? No flash allowed? No tripod allowed? Already maxed out the ISO? Nothing to lean on for stabilizing your body? Need to stop action? You've reached your gear limit...time to put down the camera!

Good luck!

gizmo3 wrote in post #4094133 (external link)
Please.
I am a football mom. I shoot Friday night games under the worst lighting imaginable.
I have been readng here, but honestly I can't afford another lens right now.
I am using a Canon Rebel XTI. I am using a EF 75-300 lens. I also hjave a Speedlite 430EX.
I am shooting on manual 1600 ISo with the light setting at bright.
I don't understand a lot of the lingo you are using here. So please if you offer help, do it idiot laymans terms.
What can I do to reduce the blur?
I know buy an image stablizing lens. Again, I am out of gas when it comes to money right now. We have 4 more games left, all on Friday nights. I am down on the field with the boys walking back and forth. I am not usin a tripod because Canon sent me to B&H and B&H says it is a waste of money I need this 1000 plus lens.
I am paying attention to any suggestions you all are willing to offer me.
I am missing out some really great shots here.




  
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ducko
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Oct 09, 2007 11:53 |  #4

If you can't spend any money, the best thing I can tell you to do is:

Zoom out to 75mm focal length on the lens (this will allow you to open the aperture to f/4) to bring in more light. You will have to crop them when you get home. If you can still utilize the flash, then go for it. It may not make a difference though as I doubt you will be close enough to the action.

Go as high as you can with the ISO (I think that's 1600 on the XTI). You will probably need at least a shutter speed of 200 for that kind of action, unless you get pictures before the snap of the ball. An image stabilizing lens won't do you any good as it won't stop the players from moving. ;-)a

That's about all I can tell you to do. You really should consider a lens that will allow a more open aperture. Good luck!


--Ducko

  
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gooble
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Oct 09, 2007 11:54 |  #5

Part of it depends on whether the blur is because of you moving the camera or whether it is subject movement.

Both of these require a fast shutter. If you're trying to capture plays then you'll need to shoot at least 1/500 of a second shutter speed.

If your subject is relatively stationary then the 1/focal length rule should be followed. This rule is not hard and fast but it can generally be followed for hand holding. What you do is use a shutter speed of 1 divided by the focal length you have set. But you must also factor in the crop factor number. Without getting too complicated, because you have an XTi just multiply your focal length by 1.6 and divide that into 1. For example: if you're using 300mm you'll want a shutter speed of 1/480. Since your camera doesn't have that shutter speed round up to the nearest that it has which is 1/500.

In addition to this I'd get a monopod. You can get a good one for $50 or less.

You may have problems when trying to use these shutter speeds because you're shooting in low light, your camera does not have ISO 3200 and you have a slow lense. You may simply be unable to shoot at those speeds and get acceptable exposures. That's probably why you've ended up with blurry shots. In order to get acceptable exposures you've had to settle with blurry shots instead.

Since you can't really help the light problem your only solution is to get faster glass and a higher ISO body. And by fast I mean f/2.8 or faster and to get that in the focal length that your 75-300 covers you'll spend a minimum of $1000.




  
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zacker
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Oct 09, 2007 12:05 |  #6

Ahhhh, just learn to Pan...

pan: aiming and following your subject with the camera while taking the photo...

At least your subjects will be sharp plus youll be able to blur out old uncle oscar with the huge beer belly and stogie, across the field!
;)


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ducko
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Oct 09, 2007 12:10 |  #7

I just saw this post for someone selling a lens that might be appropriate for you to use. $500

https://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthre​ad.php?t=390084


--Ducko

  
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bauerman
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Oct 09, 2007 12:15 |  #8

I would guess that the best advice given to this point without spending much money is the advice to get a monopod. Your equipment does not match your photographic needs and there is no good way to get around that.

I might suggest posting some of your photos that we can review the shooting information for and see if you at least maximizing your potential with what you have.




  
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namasste
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Oct 09, 2007 12:19 as a reply to  @ zacker's post |  #9

this may sound simple but shooting from one knee with your elbow resting on your other is one way to lessen shake without spending a penny. I have shot night football and baseball with a 100-300 4.0-5.6 lens and gotten usable results at 800-1600 ISO on my 30D. My keeper rate wan't great but I did pull some. FYI, I always shoot sports on AI Servo, all AF points, CF4-1. Panning with burst mode will help get you some usable shots too, as mentioned above.


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superdiver
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Oct 09, 2007 12:38 |  #10

What about a better beamer...since she cant get a new lens?


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stathunter
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Oct 09, 2007 12:44 |  #11

For the BIG game..........rent a 70-200 2.8 IS and after using it you will NEED to have have one.


Scott
"Do or do not, there is no try"

  
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ducko
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Oct 09, 2007 12:51 |  #12

stathunter wrote in post #4094536 (external link)
For the BIG game..........rent a 70-200 2.8 IS and after using it you will NEED to have have one.

That's a good idea Scott. For about $50 you can rent the lens that you "should" have for the event. You rent it for the week at this place: http://www.rentglass.c​om/shop.aspx?type=Cano​n (external link)


--Ducko

  
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René ­ Damkot
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Oct 09, 2007 13:00 |  #13

A monopod or tripod will help prevent camera shake, not subject motion.
Learning how to pan is a good idea.

You can always shoot Raw, and underexpose by a stop. Correct exposure afterward in DPP (or whatever raw converter) That will in effect give you ISO 3200. And quite a bit of noise... But better a somewhat noisey exposure then a motion blurred one.

Sure, a faster lens might help, and will absolutely make photographing easier, but IMO it's not absolutely needed. Learn the limitations of your equipment. That will help you more then buying something.


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Steve-M
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Oct 09, 2007 13:45 |  #14

I shoot for a newspaper and I have to use my own equipment. I'm in the same boat as you gizmo3, I'm on a tight budget. I use a canon 20d camera, 28-105 f3.5-5.6 lens and a Vivitar 283 flash. I usually shoot in manual at 800 ISO at f/4.5. If I were you I'd set the camera to Tv mode, dial in a shutter speed of 200 ( I think that is the max for XTI, but it might be 250 to sync with the shutter) set ISO to 800 or 1600 use your 430ex and fire away and see what you get. Let the action come toward you and try not to shoot anything that is more than about 15 to 18 yards away from you. Does the 430ex have a manual burst mode? If it does I'd use it to get a bigger burst of light.
Here's some shots that I took with a flash at a football game recently.
http://www.smugmug.com​/gallery/3606761#20519​7359 (external link)


Canon 20d/30d, Canon EF 28-105 II USM 3.5-5.6, Vivitar 283 Flash x 2, Wein Safe-Sync.

  
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kitacanon
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Oct 09, 2007 14:11 |  #15

Best bang for your buck is a Canon 135mm F:2.8 lens (it is often sold as "soft focus" for portraiture, but the soft-focus device can be turned off) for about $200 on Fleabay...actually, what I'd really like to recommend is any number of manual focus 135mm\2.8 lenses which with an adapter would set you back less than $75...but you'd have to learn how to focus...
here's my combo for night action shooting...the 135/2.8 on the left and an 85/F:2 on the right...real compact and wonderful to use...

IMAGE: http://img372.imageshack.us/img372/9388/cannikkrp8.jpg

pssss... IS (image stablizer) isn't all that it's cracked up to be...I've tried it and found that I can hold the camera steadier and get sharper pix than with the IS...that is, my IS is better than Canon's...but I've been shooting for 40 years and know how to breathe...and how to squeeeeze the shutter...it does take practice to learn how to correctly breathe and squeeze...

Anyway...F:2.8 will give you 2 clicks faster shutter speed (500 vs 125)...I think you should be able to shoot the game at ISO 1600 @ 500/sec @ F:2.8 and this will stop a lot of action...since it is not a powerful a telephoto, you'll just have to get close to the action....good luck

My Canon kit 450D/s90; Canon lenses 18-55 IS, 70-210/3.5-4.5....Nikon kit: D610; 28-105/3.5-4.5, 75-300/4.5-5.6 AF, 50/1.8D Nikkors, Tamron 80-210; MF Nikkors: 50/2K, 50/1.4 AI-S, 50/1.8 SeriesE, 60/2.8 Micro Nikkor (AF locked), 85mm/1.8K-AI, 105/2.5 AIS/P.C, 135/2.8K/Q.C, 180/2.8 ED, 200/4Q/AIS, 300/4.5H-AI, ++ Tamron 70-210/3.8-4, Vivitar/Kiron 28/2, ser.1 70-210/3.5, ser.1 28-90; Vivitar/Komine and Samyang 28/2.8; 35mm Nikon F/FM/FE2, Rebel 2K...HTC RE UWA camera

  
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