Ever gone to court over a cancellation?

DocFrankenstein wrote in post #4207343
One thing is someone dies, other thing is people wasting your time maliciously.

How do you know there was really a death? Do you crash the funeral? That's class...

cdifoto wrote in post #4207350
How do you know there was really a death? Do you crash the funeral? That's class...

He said there was a death in one of the situations. And based on everything else here you just have to take his word for what it is.

Moments... keep your $400 and move on. It's REALLY not worth it. you DO have your reputation to look after and suing a bride and groom just doesn't make good business sense in this case. There are probably cases where it's necessary, but this isn't one.

I hope the judge you are shooting portraits for steers you away from this idea.

Well look what happened to me..I did a wedding for a friend of my brother-in-law..big red flag...got the deposit and it has been 3 years now and still no money for the wedding..I have the pictures though...when they pay me, they get my images..but they do not owe me enough for me to go thru the trouble of suing. I did it for 865.00 and they gave me my 200 deposit....I've increased my prices since then and NO MORE FAMILY or FRIEND DISCOUNTS.....they pay everything up front now 2 weeks before the wedding and all of it is non-refundable unless I am the one who cancels.

SBCmetroguy wrote in post #4207424
He said there was a death in one of the situations. And based on everything else here you just have to take his word for what it is.

I was referring to the OP not truly knowing unless he or she played detective about it. I agree with the rest of your post. Ya just gotta pick yer battles...wisely.

Really OP, it's not like you're chasing a payment after providing the service. All you've done so far is convince them that you're good enough to book.

Hey Missed the thing about if there was really a death. Death notice in the paper. Father of the Bride. Reception hall canceled also.

I have gone to one funeral. It was for a groom whose wedding I did photograph a year or so prior. Killed in Iraq.

I have this thing about respect. Not enough in the world any more. It is sad.

As originally asked, if anyone had gone to court over a broken contract, not if you kept the deposit, got something for nothing. Thanks for all the feedback.

Let you all know what the judge whose portrait I'm taking on Tues thinks as far as a contractual agreement so close to initiation.

I am in favor of the contract being upheld. Yes, court is a hassle, but what is the point of the contract than? It's not just there to scare people, it's there to actually uphold what two or more people agree upon.

I think cancelling one month before the date is unprofession on the client's part. If you think about it, most well-paying clients will need/want to book a wedding photographer well over one month before their wedding. So now that the OP had the client cancel, it will be hard to replace that FULL-DAY of pay. In the larger view, the OP is losing money. If he expected to get his full fee and is now only going to recieve $400.00 from it - that is a loss of income, yes.

I would have acutally stressed this to the groom on the phone and explained that not only due to your contract (hopefully you actually have some clause about cancelling) and due to the time in relation to the wedding date, that it would be a breach of contract and court would be the next step. I would have explained that due to them holding the date until one month to the day, you will not be able to book another wedding to replace the funds. This is at their fault, period. I would have also explained that it was not ethical to have signed another contract before speaking to you about the situation because that can cause some legal issues for the other photographer. I would look into the legal side of this as well. Would the other photographer have signed them knowing they already signed with you and paid you a retainer? I don't know, other things to think about. I would cause them trouble - but that's just me.

Let's say you sue them and win. The hardest part is the collection process. Good luck with that.

I fully agree with LBaldwin. At this point, the OP is most likely not going to be getting positive referalls anyhow - so the "bad for business" point just doesn't make any pragmatic sense to me.
Also, as LBaldwin pointed out, the OP isn't going up against a law firm. The OP has a signed contract that these two people broke. The OP doesn't even need a lawer (maybe consult one first just to get advised and make sure his/her contract is as binding as he/she obviously thinks it is). I think people just assume that it costs tens of thousands of dollars to go to court. Fact is, it just doesn't all the time. Especially in these small claims sort of things.

Last thing that is being ignored here. Photographers are overlooked and mistreated too much. One reason for that is the fact that so many of us have this "who cares" mindset. Fact is, if I have a mortgage to pay, $400 and a weekend off, even if I really would wanted that, just doesn't pay the bills. If I've been counting on 3k in the next month and then am told just take $400 and the day off, that doesn't work for me. Remember, that "day" can sometimes be the entire months work, so, for some, it's actually saying "take two weeks or a month off and here's $400." As the OP pointed out, if he/she called up the client and ducked out because of a higher paying job, they would want to sue (and rightfully so). They broke the contract. If his/her contract truly is binding, he/she will get what is owed. Odds are, before they even go to court (just once the papers are delievered).

I just read the whole thing and I still don't see whether it is even in your contract. I agree that it is very unprofessional and inconsiderate, but that won't mean a thing if it's not in your contract.

I understand the principle, though - sounds like the guy was a jerk about it, which would make it worse.

it's up to you entirely, Moments. Personally, I'd be happy with the 400 for doing nothing but If you took them to court, you'd have every right. You know the business, and after doing something for so long, you can smell a rat right away.
It's been said many a time on this site that wedding photography is a bit of photography, and a lot of business. Well, getting what is truly yours, and having the legal system step in to assist you is nothing but running a good business.

I'm a web designer and trying to become a photographer. Had a situation with a web design contract where the customer paid me half down, then someone offered them a better deal. The difference was the customer wanted the down payment returned. Had a good contract and refused. The contract actually said if the customer cancelled, they owed the full amount and I offered to let the balance go. They battled a bit but I held my ground. Someone suggested I sue for the full amount per the contract, but I didn't, and I have never regretted that decision. At the time that was my only source of income and was a rather substantial amount of money, but again, I'm glad I just let it go. I'd suggest the same. (for what it's worth).

~kevin

I was going to leave this for a while, but I had to say a few things.

The whole point for me is the fact that the contract was broken for no other reason than finding a better cheaper deal (as the Groom put it). That combined with the attitude from the groom, and the lies from the Bride prior to the groom calling to cancel. They had already signed with the other studio prior to my speaking with the bride as to my willingness to alter the contract and not include the album but to sell them all the rights and files outright. That phone call I feel was to feel me out as to how strict I was as to my contract. The bride is a past client from her first wedding. (I'm known as a easy going guy. I hear that with the referrals that do come in.) At no time was the bride saying that the request to change the contract was due to money problems. It was put to me as her friend designed her own album and my bride liked it so much she wanted to do it also. I did tell the groom that we had a binding contract which also states that my studio and only my studio is allowed to be the only professional photographer for the wedding. So if it was brought to me that it is a mistake and they only hired an additional photographer for the wedding, that also breaches the contract.

Again the issue here is the contract. If we as photographers do the same to a client, as giving back the deposit 34 days prior to the wedding, you know the client will seek legal action. For the photographer, they will have issues brought to the judge such as:
The stress and emotional distress it put the couple under, this is a once in a lifetime event.
We could not find a photographer, or we could not find a photographer who was available at the price point we needed.
We could not find a photographer that we were happy with but had to settle due to the time frame.
I could go on but you should get the idea.

Trust me, we always get looked at as the bad guys/gals. You always hear about a photographer who took off with the money, did not show up, The photos are not what I wanted, they never took a picture on my third aunt with my grandmother and she died the day after the wedding, My hair was in my eyes in all the pictures, etc. It is about time we stand up for our rights and to enforce why we do write contracts.
For those of you who say, take the cash for doing nothing. No matter how much, it is not right. My photography does make my entire living, supporting my family, my studio, and my assistants since 1984.

New guy, Jack the photographer opens up down the street. He knows that if he beets your prices, by so much, he can entice new clients to book with him. He knows that even if you have booked a wedding couple he can tell them deal he can give them will still be lower than what they are contracted to pay now with you and yes that also includes them loosing the deposit you have from them already. He know that since you will not go to court with them they have nothing to be worried about. Say it happens to you with two wedding that are the only ones you have booked in the dead of winter. will it make a difference to you? Likely to happen, no, but why be seen as the photographer that it could be done to?
On this job, it is a small one, my base package of $3000.00 so I'm out of $2600 gross and about $2000 net. Does it make a difference? Will this loss put me in great distress? no. I do commercial photography and I do very well with that. The weddings were a way for me to enjoy photography, but yes it does need to be profitable at the same time.

Yes, we all do not want bad press or bad referrals If it did even come to a local paper article or a news broadcast, great, just as long as the whole story is told. It would be more of an embarrassment for the B&G than me. I'm a reputable studio. Just like when I'm asked if they pay cash can they get out of the sales taxes. No, I would rather loose the job than put my studio in jeopardy, and I'm not willing to reduce my fee so as to help them beat the taxes. If I'm willing to say yes, I'll help them beat the taxes, then I'm shady, If I'm willing to lower my price the amount of the taxes, I'm desperate or easy. Again do that over 20 jobs and see how it adds up.

This business has changed very much over the years. This is the reason that I first started to look at this board. To see what other people were doing, problems others are having, solve problems, get views on issues, etc. It is great to see some of the changes and trends and also sad at the same time. One thing that I do think has happened, is that photography and the business of photography has been devalued and dumbed down.

Thanks to all for their comments and suggestions, I understand all the views and respect them also even if they are not the same as my own.

I've just read this whole thread, and like Amanda/notapro I still don't understand this:
What did the written contract actually say about cancellation?

Without knowing that, there's no point even discussing this.

StewartR wrote in post #4217637
I've just read this whole thread, and like Amanda/notapro I still don't understand this:
What did the written contract actually say about cancellation?

Without knowing that, there's no point even discussing this.

I've wondered this for three pages as well since I asked on the first page.

Even if your contract gives you the right to recover monies owing it should still be a business decision as to whether you exercise that right. It seems you are emotionally upset by the attitude of the groom (understandably). Try to weigh the pros and cons very carefully and objectively before deciding how you proceed. In particular you should proceed with a view to future business dealings.

I do emphathise with your frustration.