Is the 24-70 2.8L too slow for indoors? (without flash)

Title says it all. I am having a horrible time chasing around my 15 month year old baby girl. She is very much 'all action,' and, when we are indoors at birthday parties, play rooms, etc, I get VERY few keepers with the 24-70.

Case in point, a party yesterday. Pushed the 40D to ISO1000, which is really as high as I can go without really horrible noise. I wasnt able to get above 1/50 and, obviously, most of the shots were blurry.

I dont have a flash and at most of these parties they dont appreciate it. So I need to find another option.

Does anyone have any advise for me? Keep the 24-70 (for when she can sit still and pose indoors, or for outdoors) and buy the 28mm/1.8? (I have the 50mm/1.4 but its too tight most of the time). Sell the 24-70 and get the 35mm/1.4? Get help with my technique?

I really could use some guidance on this. With my workload, I tend to be with my daughter mostly in the evenings, mostly indoors. On those rare occasions we go outside, the 24-70 is stellar, but its just not that useful for indoors for me.

Help!

Boy, so much is going to depend on how dark the room is to begin with. A flash, like a 430, pointed at the ceiling is going to give you by far the best results but maybe turning on more light might help as would bumping the ISO to 1600. The noise can’t be that different between 1000 and 1600. The 28mm will give you an additional stop and a 1/3 so you’ll get your 1/125.
But for a quick fix, pick up a couple of those cheap clamp-on shop halogen lights at and Home Depot or Wally-mart. They are usually less than 10 bucks. Clamp them to something high and point them at the ceiling. That alone is usually good for a stop or two and the light is very soft and diffuse.

hi, thanks for the help. Heres the thing:

1. I have no problem getting a 580ex to do this, its just that at most of these kiddie parties they dont like flash I need to find a non-flash alternative.

2. I need to try and keep the rig as small as possible. Many times I am alone with my daughter so I have to carry HER, her crap, as well as my, er, crap!

Nope, not too slow. But do get a flash if you're unhappy about noise above 1000

But try it at 1600 or 3200 and you might be surprised. Noise tends to get worse with bad exposures (if it's struggling to get enough light). Pumping up the ISO might lead to less noise than 1000

This is an example of the 24-70 on a 5D at ISO3200 (1/40 shutter speed).

http://www.the-aperture.com/EE/photos​/large/img_1015.jpg

that 28mm f1.8 is a great lens but even that f1.8 may not be enough indoors without that flash and good light.

how about you set your cam to manual and underexposed just a tad to milk any avaliable shutter speed out of the situation, then in PS you can bring the exposure up. I tend to do this when im already pushing max iso and max aperture and have been more than pleased in seeing post proc results in PS.

maxxed wrote in post #4211831
Title says it all. I am having a horrible time chasing around my 15 month year old baby girl. She is very much 'all action,' and, when we are indoors at birthday parties, play rooms, etc, I get VERY few keepers with the 24-70.

Case in point, a party yesterday. Pushed the 40D to ISO1000, which is really as high as I can go without really horrible noise. I wasnt able to get above 1/50 and, obviously, most of the shots were blurry.

I dont have a flash and at most of these parties they dont appreciate it. So I need to find another option.

Does anyone have any advise for me? Keep the 24-70 (for when she can sit still and pose indoors, or for outdoors) and buy the 28mm/1.8? (I have the 50mm/1.4 but its too tight most of the time). Sell the 24-70 and get the 35mm/1.4? Get help with my technique?

I really could use some guidance on this. With my workload, I tend to be with my daughter mostly in the evenings, mostly indoors. On those rare occasions we go outside, the 24-70 is stellar, but its just not that useful for indoors for me.

Help!

I had similar issues with that lens and wound up selling it. I'm not suggesting you do that. However, I wound up getting primes because I felt they were more suitable for what I'm doing now. I find the 50 1.4 and the 85 1.8 are good for me, but I wouldn't mind having the 30 1.4 as well. I personally found I needed a faster lens having my two wild kids and my external flash was sometimes just too burdensome to take with me all the time - or to use indoors every time I wanted a pic. So far, it's worked well. Good luck. I know it's a hard thing to decide on.

I've also heard the 17-55 2.8 IS can give you much more light due to the IS than the 24-70L does, so that may be a better option for you as well. Not sure though

kaitanium wrote in post #4211924
how about you set your cam to manual and underexposed just a tad to milk any avaliable shutter speed out of the situation, then in PS you can bring the exposure up. I tend to do this when im already pushing max iso and max aperture and have been more than pleased in seeing post proc results in PS.

Underexposing and then pulling exposure back up in Photoshop is going to accentuate the noise in the shots which the OP was trying to avoid by shooting at 1000 ISO or less.

While the parties may not want you to use flash, you're really between a rock and a hard spot when it comes to the situation you're describing. You need good light for fast shutter speeds and those large apertures will help, but you'll also find that you're going to have DOF issues when shooting wide open chasing your baby (believe me I know - my granddaughter is 15 months old)even if you can get the shots. I really think a flash is your best solution here. Then you can set your camera to manual, pick your ISO, shutter speed, and aperture then shoot to your heart's content (or at least to the limit of your battery power).

Mark

Mark_Cohran wrote in post #4211951
Underexposing and then pulling exposure back up in Photoshop is going to accentuate the noise in the shots which the OP was trying to avoid by shooting at 1000 ISO or less.

While the parties may not want you to use flash, you're really between a rock and a hard spot when it comes to the situation you're describing. You need good light for fast shutter speeds and those large apertures will help, but you'll also find that you're going to have DOF issues when shooting wide open chasing your baby (believe me I know - my granddaughter is 15 months old)even if you can get the shots. I really think a flash is your best solution here. Then you can set your camera to manual, pick your ISO, shutter speed, and aperture then shoot to your heart's content (or at least to the limit of your battery power).

Mark

totally agree.

See here for examples of this technique and more info on how to acheive it.

https://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthre​ad.php?t=369787

Mum2J&M wrote in post #4211946
I've also heard the 17-55 2.8 IS can give you much more light due to the IS than the 24-70L does, so that may be a better option for you as well. Not sure though

I have the 17-55 f/2.8 and it’s a great lens and will allow for significantly slower shutter speeds and take care of the camera shake blur, but will do nothing for the fast moving kid problem. I am assuming that the 1/50 shutter speed shows too much motion blur.

maxxed wrote in post #4211831
Title says it all. I am having a horrible time chasing around my 15 month year old baby girl. She is very much 'all action,' and, when we are indoors at birthday parties, play rooms, etc, I get VERY few keepers with the 24-70.

Case in point, a party yesterday. Pushed the 40D to ISO1000, which is really as high as I can go without really horrible noise. I wasnt able to get above 1/50 and, obviously, most of the shots were blurry.

I dont have a flash and at most of these parties they dont appreciate it. So I need to find another option.

Does anyone have any advise for me? Keep the 24-70 (for when she can sit still and pose indoors, or for outdoors) and buy the 28mm/1.8? (I have the 50mm/1.4 but its too tight most of the time). Sell the 24-70 and get the 35mm/1.4? Get help with my technique?

I really could use some guidance on this. With my workload, I tend to be with my daughter mostly in the evenings, mostly indoors. On those rare occasions we go outside, the 24-70 is stellar, but its just not that useful for indoors for me.

Help!

the 28 1.8 is usable @ f2.0 but gets very good beginning at f2.2. i'm not sure less DOF is the answer (35 1.4) in fact i'm pretty sure it's not.

i'd keep the 24-70L and add a 430 ex flash if i were you.

ed rader

Mum2J&M wrote in post #4211946
I've also heard the 17-55 2.8 IS can give you much more light due to the IS than the 24-70L does, so that may be a better option for you as well. Not sure though

they are both f2.8 lenses so the light is the same.

ed rader

Pete wrote in post #4211912
But try it at 1600 or 3200 and you might be surprised. Noise tends to get worse with bad exposures (if it's struggling to get enough light). Pumping up the ISO might lead to less noise than 1000

This is an example of the 24-70 on a 5D at ISO3200 (1/40 shutter speed).

I will try that, thanks. fwiw, my shots at ISO3200 look *nothing* like yours, and on top of that 1/40 simple cannot freeze my child, unless she's asleep

kaitanium wrote in post #4211924
that 28mm f1.8 is a great lens but even that f1.8 may not be enough indoors without that flash and good light.

how about you set your cam to manual and underexposed just a tad to milk any avaliable shutter speed out of the situation, then in PS you can bring the exposure up. I tend to do this when im already pushing max iso and max aperture and have been more than pleased in seeing post proc results in PS.

I'll try this as well, it sounds logical. I can fix in LR from Raw. Thanks!

I would add that the 50/1.4 produces a much higher keeper rate for me in these situations where the 24-70 has failed.

Mum2J&M wrote in post #4211941
I had similar issues with that lens and wound up selling it. I'm not suggesting you do that. However, I wound up getting primes because I felt they were more suitable for what I'm doing now. I find the 50 1.4 and the 85 1.8 are good for me, but I wouldn't mind having the 30 1.4 as well. I personally found I needed a faster lens having my two wild kids and my external flash was sometimes just too burdensome to take with me all the time - or to use indoors every time I wanted a pic. So far, it's worked well. Good luck. I know it's a hard thing to decide on.

I think you know the dilemma I am facing. Its just not always practical to carry so much gear, a baby bag, a, er, baby, and whatever else. The 50/1.4 is great but its just not wide enough for a lot of shots.
Have you considered the 28/1.8?

I use the 28 f/1.8 and love the field of view. I tend to shoot at f/2.0 and f/2.2 as its not amazingly useful wide open. If you can afford the 35L I think that would serve you well, much more usable wide open at f/1.4, its a large lens but I'd guess smaller than the brick..

maxxed wrote in post #4211831
Does anyone have any advise for me? Keep the 24-70 (for when she can sit still and pose indoors, or for outdoors) and buy the 28mm/1.8? (I have the 50mm/1.4 but its too tight most of the time). Sell the 24-70 and get the 35mm/1.4? Get help with my technique?

To answer your question, yes the 24-70 can be too slow for indoor available light pictures (as you've found out). The 28 f/1.8 will be able to give you faster shutter speed, but at a loss of DOF. Personally, I recommend getting the 28 and at least trying it. Its not hugely expensive, and it will give you a good idea of whether or not the available light thing is going to work for you.

So a flash and your 24-70 stopped down a bit will probably get you your best results, but sometimes you just can't or don't want to use a flash and the 28 f/1.8 will be a good lens for those times.