General Wedding Chit Chat Thread... (Part 3)

I'm amazed....no, flabbergasted....that so many people are so quick to ascribe the worst possible motives to moderators in a situation where they have absolutely no idea what transpired. They're only getting one very distorted side of the story, and because it's our policy not to discuss such matters publicly, will likely never know the other.

I couldn't be more disappointed.

I have been a lurking member on that forum ...
They have some crazily funny stuff in one of the threads, something about someone.

We're disappointed too.

JJacula wrote in post #4288034
We could MAKE it a chummy place.

Too right

bcap wrote in post #4287822
Not leaving, but, testing the waters over there. You should come!

Have you tried OSP also, a lot of nice people there?
I have been a lurking member in both DWF and OSP, not brave enough to post my work yet

belmondo wrote in post #4288039
I'm amazed....no, flabbergasted....that so many people are so quick to ascribe the worst possible motives to moderators in a situation where they have absolutely no idea what transpired. They're only getting one very distorted side of the story, and because it's our policy not to discuss such matters publicly, will likely never know the other.

I couldn't be more disappointed.

Hmmm ...

I agree that it's easy for a one-sided view to be distorted, which is why I posted a RFC. It's unfortunate that the mods here have a no-comment policy, because the cumulative effect of seeing multiple POTN members banned without any explanation (especially professional photographers with lots of good things to contribute and no public evidence of breaking the rules) is ... increasing suspicion of the mods.

Even though all of my own interactions with the mods have been fantastic, I can't help but feel threatened by seemingly random bannings. I'm not saying you're not doing your job well (again, my own limited experience suggests you're all on the ball), but the lack of transparency does bother me.

I know that my opinion on this doesn't matter, and that's fine (not my forum, not my rules), but I hope this explains my frustrations somewhat. I'm sorry for disappointing you Belmondo, but I'm not sorry for asking questions and drawing some conclusions when the information dried up.

Multiple?

People do not get banned, or even spoken to by a mod for frivolous reasons. There is always a build up to such an event and there is ALLWAYS the opportunity to repair the situation.
There is nothing random about the actions that are taken by mods either.
We have established and very public forum rules. Violations of those rules start with a warning (with the exception od spam) from the warning stage, it can go many ways.
But the end result is always the decision of the member in question.
Everyone is given ample opportunity to alter there behavior to work in accordance with the rules they agreed to abide by upon registration.

No one should fear the Mods or banning. It simply does not happen unless someone works very hard for it.

With the possible exception of banbert himself (though I have to assume he is happy with his decision) no one regrets his decision more than the Mods that were in contact with him.

Good to know, CDS

By "multiple" I was referring to another banning I was a bystander for and never received a follow-up PM about.

linarms wrote in post #4288170
Hmmm ...

I agree that it's easy for a one-sided view to be distorted, which is why I posted a RFC. It's unfortunate that the mods here have a no-comment policy, because the cumulative effect of seeing multiple POTN members banned without any explanation (especially professional photographers with lots of good things to contribute and no public evidence of breaking the rules) is ... increasing suspicion of the mods.

Even though all of my own interactions with the mods have been fantastic, I can't help but feel threatened by seemingly random bannings. I'm not saying you're not doing your job well (again, my own limited experience suggests you're all on the ball), but the lack of transparency does bother me.

I know that my opinion on this doesn't matter, and that's fine (not my forum, not my rules), but I hope this explains my frustrations somewhat. I'm sorry for disappointing you Belmondo, but I'm not sorry for asking questions and drawing some conclusions when the information dried up.

I could understand your concern if you're absolutely convinced people are banned at random. Unfortunately, you only see the end result without any meaningful insight into what led to it.

I have been a moderator here for a long time, and I can honestly say that nobody has ever been banned without due process. The notable exceptions would be spammers and previously banned individuals trying to sneak in with a new user account. Beyond those exceptions, every effort is made to work things out amicably. Every moderator has on numerous occasions engaged in lengthy PM exchanges with members who are starting to get themselves in trouble and might benefit from a gentle, guiding hand. More often than not, the member will ratchet down the rhetoric, and life goes on in relative peace for everyone. On rare occasions, the member decides, 'No bleeping moderator is going to shove me around,' and then we have a problem. Even then, we'll generally work with members for a while just to give them every opportunity to save face. However when they tell us they'd rather leave the forum than give up their right to be disruptive, then we have no choice but to acquiesce to those wishes.

kja wrote in post #4287930
I agree.

I think it's detrimental to the forum that Banbert has left completely. Shame someone couldn't have talked to him and tried to get him to stay - I very much enjoyed his photos and his advice. We'll all be poorer for it.

Me too. Great photographer and getting greater IMO. Too bad he didn't want to stick around. Hey, at least this time it wasn't the incessant questions from noobs that drove a good pro away.

belmondo wrote in post #4288039
I'm amazed....no, flabbergasted....that so many people are so quick to ascribe the worst possible motives to moderators in a situation where they have absolutely no idea what transpired. They're only getting one very distorted side of the story, and because it's our policy not to discuss such matters publicly, will likely never know the other.

I couldn't be more disappointed.

belmondo wrote in post #4288306
I could understand your concern if you're absolutely convinced people are banned at random. Unfortunately, you only see the end result without any meaningful insight into what led to it.

I have been a moderator here for a long time, and I can honestly say that nobody has ever been banned without due process. The notable exceptions would be spammers and previously banned individuals trying to sneak in with a new user account. Beyond those exceptions, every effort is made to work things out amicably. Every moderator has on numerous occasions engaged in lengthy PM exchanges with members who are starting to get themselves in trouble and might benefit from a gentle, guiding hand. More often than not, the member will ratchet down the rhetoric, and life goes on in relative peace for everyone. On rare occasions, the member decides, 'No bleeping moderator is going to shove me around,' and then we have a problem. Even then, we'll generally work with members for a while just to give them every opportunity to save face. However when they tell us they'd rather leave the forum than give up their right to be disruptive, then we have no choice but to acquiesce to those wishes.

I'm surprised too to see so many people assume things. I fully understand the no-comment policy. The one banning for which I actually know the reason (as in, heard it from the banned member) was for something that was a legal issue, and I would hate to see this forum get caught up in anything of that nature because of loose-lipped mods.

I think people on this forum think that it is being blunt that will get you banned becaues they don't see the other things going on. This seems ridiculous to me, particularly if one keeps in mind the difference between bluntness and brutality.

I do hope some pros stick around. Their advice has been very helpful, and their work is inspirational. I've always been quite impressed with the level of talent on this forum in general, and in the wedding section in particular.

This is my one post to say it all. (I was away celebrating Diwali, so wasn't around last night... and it seems i've missed alot)

JJacula wrote in post #4285222
Afternoon peeps! I got another family portrait booking today! Woot woot!

Woohooo Congrats Jenn You have GOT TO tell me your secret marketing/advertising techniques!

Rakefet wrote in post #4286056
Happy Dawalli to Ninjapoppet

Thanks Lisa... i had a brilliant time.

sblais wrote in post #4286527
Banbert got banned? What's going on with wedding members?? He seemed like a nice guy??

What the??

sblais wrote in post #4286548
I don't know... his last post was just 6 hours ago...

If you look a few pages back, you'll notice i mentioned he seemed a bit quiet on Thursday

PixelChick78 wrote in post #4286689
Well off to have a bubble bath and get ready for a wedding tomorrow!
G'nite!

Good luck with the Wedding Denise

mizuno wrote in post #4286888
He probably disagreed with a mod. That's all it takes.

but why?

liza wrote in post #4287262
Sad news. He was my friend. Thanks for the link to the blog, Cripps. I think I'll go back to DWF for a while. The rest of you should at least try a membership to their DWF Start section. It's a marvelous resource without the drama.
Bye all.

Just read his blog Nick was wayyy cool...

notapro wrote in post #4287819
Dang, that sucks that Banbert was banned. And all the pros are leaving to have their own party on DWF now? see ya guys.........

Amanda, looks like it might just be a few of us left here on POTN ? What happened i've only been here for less than 2 months... did i ruin the party?

picturecrazy wrote in post #4287974
wow, can't believe he got banned.

I'm a DWF pro member, but I've always hung out here because I just don't get that community feel over there. Seems the people are less chummy. sigh....

I know about DWF, but never signed up... i'm not a Pro, so wasn't sure if it was for people like me... (A newbie)

JJacula wrote in post #4288034
We could MAKE it a chummy place.

Thats for sure... you guys really know how to keep the forum pace up...

belmondo wrote in post #4288306
I could understand your concern if you're absolutely convinced people are banned at random. Unfortunately, you only see the end result without any meaningful insight into what led to it.

Fair enough. From the very limited information available (Banbert's recent posts, moderators' recent replies, etc.) I *did* have this concern (truly) but it's been allayed now. Whatever happened must have been serious and presumably we'll never know the truth. That makes me sad but I'll get over it.

I can understand the need to avoid opening user bans up to general discussion, tho my ridiculous idealism would love to see a trial by jury (key word: ridiculous).

Thanks to the mods for their patience with those of us who were/are incredulous and for doing what we can only assume is a marvellous job (no, that wasn't sarcastic).

I would now like to concur with ninja-poo that this debacle is his responsibility and ask him to fix it please!

And back to chitter chatter eh ...

belmondo wrote in post #4288039
I'm amazed....no, flabbergasted....that so many people are so quick to ascribe the worst possible motives to moderators in a situation where they have absolutely no idea what transpired. They're only getting one very distorted side of the story, and because it's our policy not to discuss such matters publicly, will likely never know the other.

I couldn't be more disappointed.

It's now that hard to foresee, really. We were good friend with Banbert, he contributed a lot to this forum and was always ready to help out. With all due respect, we almost never see a mod here (well, we do see you around a bit more recently, but I get the feeling that you were asked to spend time here "to give us a better name"), and when we do see a mod around, with a few exceptions, of course, it is often to criticize our ways of doing things.

He contributed most definitely in his posts (words and pictures) me personally in the idea's and confidence that it is possible to make a success out of Wedding Photography.

I was under the impression that us (and i do class myself as one too) regulars, were keeping good control of the Wedding subforum? Perhaps I was wrong. I have yet to see an argument that has exploded into namecalling and threats. I didn't even know that we had mods till I was recently prompted (by you i think Seb) when I desired to have my username changed. I thought this was a self-run forum. (i'm not ignorant to the fact that all forums need mods, I just assumed they were silent mods)...

I'm still new to this forum, but I do feel it to be a friendly place... and hope everyone still hangs around. I don't know if i'm quite DWF standards yet

Okay I think i've said plenty enough now... and as Linnie said, when referring to my original post of the day, lol... lets get on with the Chitter Chatter

How you doin Seb?

Luke, did I add you on Facebook? I think i did? *confused*

NIraj, I'll be sticking here with you. I did join DWF as as start member, and it seems there is much to learn there also, but why stop coming to a forum that has taught me so much?