FEC?

jamiewexler wrote in post #4225607
Not sure I understand this. The OP didn't mention the size of the venue - and it shouldn't really matter. As long as the people you are trying to light are within the range of the flash, the size of the room should have very little to do with it.

Agreed

Again though, my issue still is, my last event (which was is a small venue) I was at 1000 ISO in AV at 2.8 and was getting roughly 1/15, which is too slow for the reception as the subjects are moving quite a bit. I then switched to M and dialed up the shutter speed a little bit, but it seems like a band aid.

how do I address this?

mezorn26 wrote in post #4225627
Agreed

Again though, my issue still is, my last event (which was is a small venue) I was at 1000 ISO in AV at 2.8 and was getting roughly 1/15, which is too slow for the reception as the subjects are moving quite a bit. I then switched to M and dialed up the shutter speed a little bit, but it seems like a band aid.

how do I address this?

stupid question..... you were using flash?

notapro wrote in post #4225689
stupid question..... you were using flash?

Yes....

Aha - that's an easy one...don't shoot in AV at receptions!

in AV mode the camera will choose a SS that gives you the correct ambient exposure - no matter how slow the SS. Since people tend to move pretty fast during receptions, this will lead to blurry photos.

Change to M mode, and you control the SS and aperture. The flash will expose for the scene, no matter what the ambient exposure is - it doesn't care. Then choose a SS that gives you a good mix between the ambient light and the light from your flash, and you are golden.

AGAIN - they key is to realize that ambient exposure and flash exposure are two different things, and calculated by the camera separately.

SS and Aperture make up your ambient exposure

the ETTL Pre-flash determines your flash exposure

It's a bit of a simplification, since there are other factors involved, but at the level of learning you are currently at, think of them as two separate entities with one having NO EFFECT on the other.

jamiewexler wrote in post #4225699
Aha - that's an easy one...don't shoot in AV at receptions!

in AV mode the camera will choose a SS that gives you the correct ambient exposure - no matter how slow the SS. Since people tend to move pretty fast during receptions, this will lead to blurry photos.

Change to M mode, and you control the SS and aperture. The flash will expose for the scene, no matter what the ambient exposure is - it doesn't care. Then choose a SS that gives you a good mix between the ambient light and the light from your flash, and you are golden.

That's what I figured, and said in in an earlier post. I essentially, put it in M, and dial up my SS in anticipation of my flash. As the meter is only reading ambient light, and not expecting the flash. Does that sound right?

mezorn26 wrote in post #4225377
I'm embarrassed:o:o:o to say this, but I have no clue how to do that. As I said in a previous thread, I have ZERO experience in flash photography, and tons without flash

What you want to do is set an ambient exposure that is going to give you a reasonable shutter speed - don't worry if the camera tells you this is going to be underexposed. A good starting point is around 1/80th sec at your largest aperture or slightly smaller (say no smaller than f4 or f5.6 if you have a lot of light).

If it is dark shoot at ISO 1600. If it is so so shoot at ISO 800. If it is reasonable bright you might try ISO 400 (although this is not usual at a reception). You have to get a feel for this - experiment at home.

This is to set the ambient light - the exposure for everything not lit by the flash. As Jamie says - you can also adjust your shutter speed to influence the ambient light on the fly as it won't affect your flash exposure.

Than start off by setting your manual flash to about 1/4 and bounce your flash off the ceiling. Amount of power needed will vary depending on how high the ceiling is, how far away the person you are shooting is and how powerful your flash is (I use a 580EX II with the Canon battery pack).

Just be aware how close you are to the subject - if you vary distance greatly you will need to adjust your flash output.

I used to get really bad photos at receptions - now they are almost always great. Playing with your ambient and manual flash will give you a lot more creative ways to shoot.

A couple of examples from my latest weddings - nothing great, but will give you an idea as to what is possible.

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mezorn26 wrote in post #4225712
That's what I figured, and said in in an earlier post. I essentially, put it in M, and dial up my SS in anticipation of my flash. As the meter is only reading ambient light, and not expecting the flash. Does that sound right?

I'm pretty new, but here's what's worked for me with my itty bitty amount of knowledge:

I just learned to use E-TTL, but this is how I do it:

I spot meter for the background/ambient light (I just use spot meter a lot, or maybe I would use something else). Set the exposure in M so that it is just a little underexposed usually - maybe 1.3 stops

Don't use FEC at all - take a shot. The flash calculates how to bring the subject up to a proper exposure.

I chimp. If I need to I adjust FEC.

notapro wrote in post #4225766
I'm pretty new, but here's what's worked for me with my itty bitty amount of knowledge:

I just learned to use E-TTL, but this is how I do it:

I spot meter for the background/ambient light (I just use spot meter a lot, or maybe I would use something else). Set the exposure in M so that it is just a little underexposed usually - maybe 1.3 stops

Don't use FEC at all - take a shot. The flash calculates how to bring the subject up to a proper exposure.

I chimp. If I need to I adjust FEC.

CHIMP?

Chimp - look at your LCD to see what your photo looks like.

I think you are worrying too much about perfectly exposing the background. Don't worry if the background is underexposed a few stops. Of course, you don't want it to be pitch black either...but here is where you need to find a happy balance between ambient exposure, acceptable shutter speed and acceptable ISO/noise levels. The important part is that the subjects are exposed correctly...which is still fairly subjective.

A bit of practice, as Jamie mentioned, can really help to understand all of this.

jamiewexler wrote in post #4225607
Not sure I understand this. The OP didn't mention the size of the venue - and it shouldn't really matter. As long as the people you are trying to light are within the range of the flash, the size of the room should have very little to do with it.

I think you put it better than i did.
I meant if the room was big and the subjects were far away. Obviously if it were a small room they would be in range.
The subject didn't state the size of the venue so i was trying guess what would cause underexposure with flash - fall off. But a longer SS would help him because of ambient light.

Sometimes i know what i mean in my own head but struggle to get my point across. If you still do not understand then i an afraid you will need to take a course in jibberish to fully grasp my thoughts!

I think someone needs to read "Understanding Exposure"...

tim wrote in post #4227562
I think someone needs to read "Understanding Exposure"...

Assuming a basic understanding of exposure, is that book helpful for flash exposure particularly?

notapro wrote in post #4227587
Assuming a basic understanding of exposure, is that book helpful for flash exposure particularly?

It covers flash photography, I haven't read it but it seems to be the textbook for exposure in general.

Curtis N wrote in post #4225237
Do whatever is easiest for you. With your 40D you can do it without removing your eye from the viewfinder if you know where the buttons are. With your XTi it's probably easier to adjust it on the flash than dig through the camera menu.

When using flash, you need to think about the ambient exposure and the flash exposure separately. It's important to know how to manage both. You would probably benefit from some of the flash articles in this thread, as well as The EOS Flash Bible (link in my sig).

On the XTi, you can use CF's to move FEC to the set button, so you can adjust rapidly by hitting set, then using the toggles.