Cannon 40D vs. Pentax K10D??

Ok before you load your weapons I have spent alllottt of time reading this forum and have found some great information. Just want to make sure Im doing the right thing. About to purchase a new camera (have Sony p&s but had slr previously) and have used the Pentax as my bro-in-law has one. Nice camera but what is of the utmost important to me is clarity, sharpness etc. I understand the RAW concept and according to most reviews the Pentax compares nicely with most other brands when shooting in that method. Have also read about the importance of glass vs. body. Im not an expert at photography and have much to learn but also want a camera I can grow with. Not planning on spending thousands on lenses but do want great images. Dont want to get a camera that I will trade or sell later on. Similar to when I purchased my first motorcycle and everyone said start small. I bought the biggest one I could and learned to ride on it and have been happy ever since. Do you REALLY suggest starting with an XTI for example or 20D or 30D? Hope im not repeating similar questions but I do value your opinions. Thank you...

They are about the same physical size and weight. The 40d has a bigger and better screen, better IQ, more lenses, more accessories, more support, more everything... Unless your a diehard Pentax fan, the choice seems simple to me.

Nugeman wrote in post #4275141
Ok before you load your weapons I have spent alllottt of time reading this forum and have found some great information. Just want to make sure Im doing the right thing. About to purchase a new camera (have Sony p&s but had slr previously) and have used the Pentax as my bro-in-law has one. Nice camera but what is of the utmost important to me is clarity, sharpness etc. I understand the RAW concept and according to most reviews the Pentax compares nicely with most other brands when shooting in that method. Have also read about the importance of glass vs. body. Im not an expert at photography and have much to learn but also want a camera I can grow with. Not planning on spending thousands on lenses but do want great images. Dont want to get a camera that I will trade or sell later on. Similar to when I purchased my first motorcycle and everyone said start small. I bought the biggest one I could and learned to ride on it and have been happy ever since. Do you REALLY suggest starting with an XTI for example or 20D or 30D? Hope im not repeating similar questions but I do value your opinions. Thank you...

Well you will probably find it easier to learn with an XTi, and they aren't that expensive. You are unlikely to get anyone here suggesting the K10D. And I certainly won't, as I believe the 40D is a far superior camera.

What do you plan on shooting?

Well most folks on here are Canon...hence the forum's name. Pentax is a distant third, if not fourth now - when it comes to dSLR market penetration. 1 is Canon (although that may change soon), 2 is Nikon, 3 is either Pentax or Sony, and 4 is either Pentax or Sony. I'm not sure which is which because I don't care enough to follow it.

Point is, you won't get much VALID and UNBIASED input here, if any. Your best bet is to check out the better review sites and stay out of brand-specific forums/subforums. dpreview.com has really great reviews and comparisons, complete with image samples, as does steves-digicams.com.

Nugeman wrote in post #4275141
Ok before you load your weapons I have spent alllottt of time reading this forum and have found some great information. Just want to make sure Im doing the right thing. About to purchase a new camera (have Sony p&s but had slr previously) and have used the Pentax as my bro-in-law has one. Nice camera but what is of the utmost important to me is clarity, sharpness etc. I understand the RAW concept and according to most reviews the Pentax compares nicely with most other brands when shooting in that method. Have also read about the importance of glass vs. body. Im not an expert at photography and have much to learn but also want a camera I can grow with. Not planning on spending thousands on lenses but do want great images. Dont want to get a camera that I will trade or sell later on. Similar to when I purchased my first motorcycle and everyone said start small. I bought the biggest one I could and learned to ride on it and have been happy ever since. Do you REALLY suggest starting with an XTI for example or 20D or 30D? Hope im not repeating similar questions but I do value your opinions. Thank you...

http://www.dslreports.​com/forum/dimaging

Try this place out. Lots of great people that use different cameras there. There are a few people that shoot that camera on there.

Give it a shot

Wow you guys are quick. Yes I am aware of the Dpreview site and have read it until my eyes hurt many times...lol. Im aware of the biases but with this forum there are many more members than on Pentax. (Ive read that one as well) As far as what I will be shooting, will mostly be family related and maybe some outdoor stuff. (animals/sports etc.) I do want something I can grow with and hesitate on the Pentax because of the image softness I have noticed with my bro-in-laws. (non Raw photos) They do give you a big bang for your buck but again I dont want to have to sell everything in the future. There are guys who use Pentax for work but not near as many as Canon. Got the lense availability part with Canon's huge group. Dont know anything about Nikon but might check into the D80 there as well. Still appreciate the advice from you guys however.

Well, if it means anything to you, Bella Pictures (a wedding mill I shot for briefly) doesn't accept photogs who shoot Pentax or Sony cameras. Not sure if that means much though, considering their business structure. heh.

At any rate, the lack of members in the Pentax forums should really tell you something. Canon and Nikon, IMHO, are the two to really compare if you're serious about having access to/having a full line of equipment (lenses, flashes, grips, etc). Lenses are what matters most. The bodies are important but being digital, they fade quickly into planned obsolescence. Instead of fretting over which camera gives the least bit of extra per-pixel sharpness or extra default contrast or has the edge in tonal gradiation or whatever, go for the system that fits you best.

What is wrong with your pictures now? How is your point/shoot unsatisfactory and what do you hope to gain?

I don't think Pentax should be dismissed. Especially for a low budget prime shooter. If You want to KIS(keep it simple) a K10D + 31mm f/1.8 AL Limited + 77mm f/1.8 Limited combo is hard to beat. Especially since both lenses will be stabilized

Let me pick up on a couple of points here, if I may:

Nugeman wrote in post #4275141
what is of the utmost important to me is clarity, sharpness etc.

You've stressed this - cool - that helps a lot. Your decision, it seems to me, should not therefore be based on the camera body, but on lens quality, as it is the lenses that form the image and have by far the greatest role in determining image quality. To my mind, that means that you will buy a Canon, as it is my belief that the range, specifications, and quality (ahem) are overall the best that mortals can afford.

With that out of the way, the body choice is a no brainer - the 40D, but...

Well - unfortunately the days of one camera for life either disappeared with film, or have not yet arrived for dSLR. If nothing else, shutter life is limited, and replacement a significant fraction of the cost of a new body. I suggest that you abandon this ideal,simply because to cling to it will mean you will be disappointed. There is another issue. If you intend ever to change from a cropping body like the 40D to a larger format, such as the "full frame" 5D, then you will also have to accept change in the future, or spend much more now to buy a 5D. Having said that, if you plan now or in the future to move to full frame, that may well influence your lens choice now, as some (EF-S) lenses are not compatible with full frame bodies.

Finally,

No - if you are wanting to get a cropper, get a 20D/30D/40D as your preference and budget dictates. Image quality is very similar. There is no point or need to build up to these camera bodies.

Funnily enough I'd be the first to confess that the K10D is a camera that tempted me a lot. The JPEGs out of the camera are of a disappointing quality and somewhat disturbing. However based on samples on DPReview the results are excellent when shooting RAW...fantastic results against the 40D.

Trouble is...how much does it cost to buy a copy of Adobe Camera RAW? If I could easily get hold of a copy for a reasonable price, the K10D becomes even more attractive.

To the best of my knowledge, the K10D produces photos with better sharpness (when shooting RAW) than the 40D, at the expense of some moire. There is in-camera stabilization (the effectiveness of this compared to in-lens stabilization has be debated at nauseum), the camera body is completely weather-sealed, viewfinder is perhaps just as good...

Where it loses out is liveview, FPS, maybe AF speed, build, higher noise at higher ISOs, amongst other issues. In the dynamic range test at DPReview, the DR of the K10D images is rather poor compared to the competition. However I'm assuming that this is when looking at JPEGs out of the camera. When processing in RAW I suspect that this limited DR issue does not really exist. With ACR, the test at the site was able to pull out 10 stops of detail from a RAW file (color-accuracy not guaranteed), which is pretty much like a 30D, but less than a 40D.

Someone once said that if you want to use expensive glass, and in particular the big telephotos, it's a good idea to stick with Canon (or Nikon). But if you're going to shoot with the standard zoom range (where in-body IS supposedly still works very well), there's supposed to be a good amount of great (and inexpensive) Pentax glass out there that will mesh well with a K10D.

And the K10D is cheaper than the 40D. Based on second-hand prices I've seen in a local forum, the price is on par with a 30D. And if I were starting afresh, I might very well get a K10D over a 30D. In my opinion, it's impossible to make a decision for someone. I have no experience with either camera and hence cannot advice any further. But I'd admit once again...the K10D is very tempting on paper.

Now I shall stand back and face the firing squad...

My DSLR history is Canon 20D, Pentax K10D, Canon 40D. I'll volunteer my subjective perspective.

K10D - much better colour than Canon, worse high ISO noise, better ergonomics/haptics, dreadful autofocus, lower dynamic range. Also, one thing kind of hard to explain.... it's as if the K10D is great for shadow detail but weak on highlight detail. If I had a moody dark shot to take, the K10D would be the camera for the job. Unfortunately, one of the things digital doesn't do as well as film is highlights, so the K10D suffers doubly in comparison to film.

More than anything, it was the AF that brought me back to Canon though.

These are my personal feelings.

cdifoto wrote in post #4275243
Lenses are what matters most.

And this being the case consider that maybe (I'm not totally sure of prices so you'll have to check this) you could get a K10D and some nice primes or zooms for a similar price of a 40D body and 1 lens.

twofruitz wrote in post #4275160
They are about the same physical size and weight.

Oh no they arent. The k10 is a fair bit smaller than the 40D and it feels about as heavy as the 400d. Our k10 was pretty awkward to use until we got the battery grip for it just so my pinkie had somewhere to rest.

I was in a position a while ago to switch from canon to pentax but i stayed with canon because pentax at the time only really offered kit lenses and a bunch of slow primes. Even now they only have added two lenses that they promised would have been out back in February that were only on shelves a month and a bit ago.

The upgrade path with them is also non existent at the moment as well. I like knowing that there is a 1d3 there for me if by some chance i outgrow my 20d.

Just a few thoughts from me. That being said, we still have a decent investment in pentax glass and cameras. They do some things better than canon but for the most part, canon offers me more for what i want to do. (No long, fast(ish), readily available primes from pentax)

While the K10D is an excellent body I would not be scared to call the Pentax system as a whole weak. At this time their modern lens selection is woeful at best. Sigma/Tamron/Tokina (who is now pentax anyway?) helps Pentax a lot by making lens that Pentax themselves failed to provide. You will not have such an easy time with the pentax system. Also people on dpreview complain about Pentaxs' very poor and unreliable flash system as it is on the K10D.

So it is an awesome body, but as the whole the Pentax system is still very raw (no pun intended). It will take a while yet for Pentax to mature as a digital solution. And with news that Hoya is dismissing Pentax is making things confusing.

In conclusion I think at this moment in time Pentax is a risky affair.