Can a master 580EX trigger another slave without firing itself?

pjtemplin wrote in post #4358578
My thoughts exactly. The 580-as-transmitter has more range than the ST-E2, can control "group C" slaves, uses the same batteries as the rest of my flash fleet, and can be mounted off-camera with a cord and still contribute to your lighting. Plus, I can still use it as a flash. Hence, three 580s in my bag.

That is my eventual plan (3 580s!). I did not know that the ST-E2 could not control group C slaves and had less range. I'm definately not going to get an ST-E2 then but instead save a little more and just keep getting 580s. I had thought about getting a 430 but I think I'll just stick with all 580s. They're not that much more. Right now I have a 420EX to accompany my new 580. I may go ahead and get another 580 soon while the rebate is in effect. Then I'll have to find someone to unload my two Vivitar 285s on since I'm sure I'll never use them again when I get that setup.

Not to ruin the wishlist, but I wouldn't hope to stop at 3x580s (or accept some 430s to round out the plan). One on-camera 580 is your transmitter, so you'll need (at least) three more flashes just to have an A, B, and C (if you feel the three groups contribute to your shot).

Somewhat tangential, but do remember that you can't use group C as a hair light. From the 580EX II manual, p 44, in the first grey "!" box, "if you point the slave unit in slave group <C> toward the subject, the subject will be overexposed". Granted, you could bump down the FEC to offset...

pjtemplin wrote in post #4359532
Not to ruin the wishlist, but I wouldn't hope to stop at 3x580s (or accept some 430s to round out the plan). One on-camera 580 is your transmitter, so you'll need (at least) three more flashes just to have an A, B, and C (if you feel the three groups contribute to your shot).

Somewhat tangential, but do remember that you can't use group C as a hair light. From the 580EX II manual, p 44, in the first grey "!" box, "if you point the slave unit in slave group <C> toward the subject, the subject will be overexposed". Granted, you could bump down the FEC to offset...

I don't plan to stop at just 3 580s. Maybe I'll stop after 5 or 6. I can stop anytime I want to; really I can.

My understanding was that you could use Group C as a hairlight since it's basically a backlight in that circumstance. It sounds like group C fires pretty powerfully. I can see why you wouldn't want to face it toward the subject to front light them but I believe you COULD use it as a back-lit hairlight. And of course it can be used as a background light. I could be wrong on my understanding though.

ChucklesKY wrote in post #4354302
I am using it on a 40D. I didn't do it by the camera Cn Fn. Once the flash is powered on you hold down the [ZOOM] button for two seconds. That starts the blinking to choose master or slave on. Use the select wheel to turn on master. Then above the ratio A:B on the LCD there is an 'on' flashing simultaneously with an indicator that the flash will fire. If you use the select wheel to select 'off' that indicator goes off. Then the flash will act as a master without actually firing the flash. I doubt if that really makes sense. It's really almost impossible to explain by writing it out. But the short of it is that you can disable the flash from firing without disabling its ability to act as a master right on the flash itself. Good luck!

Hi Chuck,
Sorry to pull this thread back up...
I did follow your way to disable my flash from firing, but my steps are inserted with the red numbers:

1) Once the flash is powered on, hold down the [ZOOM] button for two seconds.
2) Use the select wheel to turn on master.
3) Press the middle wheel button to highlight the ratio A:B (blinking)
4) There is an 'on' flashing simultaneously with an indicator that the flash will fire. If you use the select wheel to select 'off' that indicator goes off.
5) Press the middle wheel button to save the new settings.
6) Then the flash will act as a master without actually firing the flash. (Mine keeps firing both master and slave - what wrong would be here?)

My understanding is: First, the on-camera flash was disabled its function (no light effects to the subject) but it has to flash to trigger the slave flash, that's why the master flash keeps firing. Second, the way it was OFF here is just the RATIO off and that's why the master flash keeps firing. Please correct if I'm not right. Thanks again.

Titus213 wrote in post #4350313
The master flash emits a series of command flashes to the slave. That is probably what you are seeing.

Titus is right!

I don't think it's necessarily fired "pretty powerfully". I think it's just that the camera has mere milliseconds to calculate exposure, and may be busy enough figuring the A+B subject lighting that it's running out of time.

Last night I was in the mood for a distraction, so I brought out my trusty box of Kraft Macaroni & Cheese and placed it on a small table. Out came the camera and three flashes! I've picked up some of the goodies from Honl Photo, and wanted to play. The first flash was tied to the camera by an OC-E3 and placed on a tripod about 12" camera right and up by 12". The B flash was given a mild orange color (1/4 CTO) and a snoot. The C flash was given a "split" color - Light Red on one side, Primary Blue on the other, and a Gobo to help keep the light onto my horizontal blinds. Wow! I never realized how much depth that could add to a photo! Even starting the C group at -3 was enough, but I could go as high as +1 before I started to lose the box.

So yeah, I can see an army of 430s as background lights...and maybe two more 580s so I can do an AABB remote lineup for group portraits. Someday...

pjtemplin wrote in post #4364378
I don't think it's necessarily fired "pretty powerfully". I think it's just that the camera has mere milliseconds to calculate exposure, and may be busy enough figuring the A+B subject lighting that it's running out of time.

Last night I was in the mood for a distraction, so I brought out my trusty box of Kraft Macaroni & Cheese and placed it on a small table. Out came the camera and three flashes! I've picked up some of the goodies from Honl Photo, and wanted to play. The first flash was tied to the camera by an OC-E3 and placed on a tripod about 12" camera right and up by 12". The B flash was given a mild orange color (1/4 CTO) and a snoot. The C flash was given a "split" color - Light Red on one side, Primary Blue on the other, and a Gobo to help keep the light onto my horizontal blinds. Wow! I never realized how much depth that could add to a photo! Even starting the C group at -3 was enough, but I could go as high as +1 before I started to lose the box.

So yeah, I can see an army of 430s as background lights...and maybe two more 580s so I can do an AABB remote lineup for group portraits. Someday...

I'd really like to see a thread that not only shows some sample images but exactly how you did what you did here. Looks like it would be a great tutorial on how to program the flash units and make the "extras" that you have along with them.

Ask, and ye shall receive: https://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthre​ad.php?t=411340

See my notes in https://photography-on-the.net …hp?p=4376177&po​stcount=12 - I think your sequence is slightly off. Hold the zoom button for two seconds to get Off/Master/Slave control, and set the flash as Master. Hit set. Then, hit (not hold) the zoom button, and it should cycle through "Manual Zoom - Ratio Selection - Channel Selection - Master Flash On/Off". Ratios can be on or off; they don't matter here. What you want is Master Flash On/Off.

ChucklesKY wrote in post #4352836
I just got my 580EX II yesterday! Woohoo!! But, yes, you can use it to trigger other slave flashes without it fire a flash itself. I did it yesterday using it on-camera to fire a 420EX off-camera. It basically functions like an expensive, but much more versatile, ST-E2 in that situation. Which makes me realize that I have no reason to purchase an ST-E2 but just more 580s!!!

Hi. I have two 580EX lls and I am trying to use one as a master and one as a slave. When i turn the master and the slave 'on' both the master and slave fire. But when i turn the master off (as on p.39 of the manual) the master fires and the slave does not. Are there other settings i do not know about? What could I be doing wrong? Do I need to make an adjustment in the camera? I am lost.

petergraemedavies

Ok, I've read this thread twice , and no one seems to be answering the question clearly (at least to me...). Like Peter above me I have the same exact question. Here's the question, in other words:

I want to fire JUST the slave (580exII), from the on camera Master (also a 580exII), without firing the on camera master. I'm not interested in Custom functions in the camera (5d), since the flash should do this.
I have read the manual a million times... I'm aware of the Pre-flash. The Master, when "off", as described below, is NOT firing the slave (which is on the same channel as the master)...

Here's what I'm doing:
I'm starting with the Master "On", and all works as designed (master fires, and slave fires, simultainously):
To turn off the master, I hold the "zoom" button down for two seconds and the Master "On" & the lightning bolt flash. I turn the dial so it says "off", and hit the set button in the middle of the dial. Here's where the frustration starts... The manual (pg 39) states that at that point, the flash head symbol and the lightning bolt should remain visible. IT DOESN'T, and the slave doesn't fire (I hold the slave 1' in front of master for this test)

What am I doing wrong???

Thanks.

Holding the zoom button for 2 seconds and then turning it OFF, turns the master mode off.

You don't want the lightening bolt flashing, you want the light rays on the left of the flash head icon to flash.

Instead just press the zoom button, repeating the press as necessary, until you see the light rays and the ON blinking. Then rotate the dial counterclockwise until OFF blinks. Then press the button.

hth.

OK, I got the light symbol and the Off to flash. But when I stand in front of a mirror I see both flashes firing in the shot???? Is that normal?

CamaraDave wrote in post #7645801
OK, I got the light symbol and the Off to flash. But when I stand in front of a mirror I see both flashes firing in the shot???? Is that normal?

The master will still do a preflash to get the exposure, which will look like a flash. You can experiment by taking a picture of something reflective in front of the camera. You should only see a very faint image of the master preflash if at all. If you then turn on the master you should see a major reflection in the object.

CamaraDave wrote in post #7645801
OK, I got the light symbol and the Off to flash. But when I stand in front of a mirror I see both flashes firing in the shot???? Is that normal?

There is contradicting info. even in this thread (although I could be reading it wrong). Titus in post #4 says the pre-flash finishes before the shutter opens. Then Rene in post #8 seems to find the same thing you are describing...meaning the shutter is open enough to record the pre-flash from the master when it is set to "off".

For the record both Titus and Rene are extremely knowledgeable and contribute huge amounts to this forum, and my comment is not meant to judge their knowledge. PacAce (Leo) is a wiz at trouble shooting and explaining the nuances of Canon off camera flash. I wouldn't be surprised if he drops by this thread to shed some clarity.

In my limited experience I simply turn the master flash head straight up or in some direction away from the scene if I want to be sure not to contaminate the scene with the pre-flash instructions being sent out. I suspect the pre-flash is very limited in power and you would probably have to be very close to the subject to have it influence the scene.

The preflash is before the shutter opens. But I am guessing it takes some time for the flash to extinguish so you can see the preflash in a photo. Try taking a photo in a mirror in a dark room and you will see the preflash. It is very dim and only visible if you don't have another flash that is on.