Kiwi - GKPE - General Ramblings (3)

tony to be honest its a real struggle to make any money in motorsport. if i make enough to cover my costs then i am happy. if not as i love motorsport then i a great excuse to be on the track..

most people want stuff for free or next to free. magazines are tighter than the duck arse.. and the 'boys club' you will encounter will drive you nuts.

landscapes - portraits - weddings - commercial are the ways to make money. lance got his mk3 through selling prints but i dont remeber any sport shots in his collection he sold.

Nzshrimper wrote in post #4506610
tony to be honest its a real struggle to make any money in motorsport. if i make enough to cover my costs then i am happy. if not as i love motorsport then i a great excuse to be on the track..

most people want stuff for free or next to free. magazines are tighter than the duck arse.. and the 'boys club' you will encounter will drive you nuts.

landscapes - portraits - weddings - commercial are the ways to make money. lance got his mk3 through selling prints but i dont remeber any sport shots in his collection he sold.

Where did lance sell his prints? and what of?

I really need to start making some money of photography. All it's doing is costing me money

Nzshrimper wrote in post #4506610
tony to be honest its a real struggle to make any money in motorsport. if i make enough to cover my costs then i am happy. if not as i love motorsport then i a great excuse to be on the track..

most people want stuff for free or next to free. magazines are tighter than the duck arse.. and the 'boys club' you will encounter will drive you nuts.

Yup, that's what I was trying to say, and what everyone I've talked to says about motorsport in NZ. It's a rich man's sport, and not enough rich people in NZ.

somethingsimple wrote in post #4506163
really the only thing i would give back is the 24-105 and only because it would get me the 70-200 2.8 IS (need IS for indoor shooting, remember a lot of this gear is for weddings)

would it be horribly cheeky to email glam and ask him? lol

somethingsimple wrote in post #4506249
yeah i posted that question a long time back, everyone said 17-55 and 70-200, both f/2.8 IS

which makes it more stupid i guess that i didnt buy the second one... it was all about price at the time and thinking i was at my credit limit

Hmmmm.....what do I say to that?

TOLD YOU SO!

momentz wrote in post #4506412
I think people want to have their cake and eat it too.

For lesser mortals such as ourselves we're really having to think long and hard about needs vs wants.

Our next dilema is which of the following do we buy, purely focussed on weddings:
24-105 (backup to the 17 - 55)
10-22 (allows creativity, and diffentiates our shots from many others, also good for aaron's motor vehicle shots)
70-200 2.8IS (higher keeper rate than the sigma, important in a pressure situation such as a wedding, although the sigma still produces some fantastic shots)

ARGH!

I think more the reality is that a lot of people expect things to come to them, rather than having to work hard for it. So you are absolutely right about cake and eating.

I am trying to get accreditation for the Australian F1 grand prix. Most say it's impossible. I have people say that wouldn't back me because they have tried before and failed. One even said "we've given up, we can't even get the same pass that aussie guys get". Interesting. With one email message sent I have been told I will be granted an aussie pass (No F1 photos, no track access). Not what I want but it's a hell of a 'start' to get myself in the 'impossible' door. Getting that only took one email message. Not what I'd call impossible.

If I can't get there within a few years (from NZ - and it is tough) I am shipping out to the UK to chase the dream.

Now many of you will be reading this thinking "he's dreaming". And you know what? You'd be right. The difference between me and others is that I am too stupid to realise anything's impossible.

I am quitting my job in April to start the ball rolling on the motorsport photography stuff. A big gamble (and a huge paycut obviously), but I know that if I sit on my butt and expect it to fall into my lap, it won't ever happen.

Aaron, you and Serra are more the 'real' story example. You are out there doing it - with the same fears and reservations we all have - but you are doing it.

I am in the throws of positioning myself within media circles to be able to work to where I need to go - it's a pathway of sorts.

Right now I'm sitting indoors doing some web work to raise cash (outside of my normal job) to get some gear. My plans have taken a few hits of late - so I am putting in the required efforts to get myslef back online. It's hard to keep the energy levels up - but I'm trying as hard as I can. I know that if I don't help myself, it won't get any better.

Like I've said before, photography is the ultimate free market, opportunities abound. With a bit of hard work, it can be done. I'm sure of it.

Cliff

klippe wrote in post #4506805
I think more the reality is that a lot of people expect things to come to them, rather than having to work hard for it. So you are absolutely right about cake and eating.

I am trying to get accreditation for the Australian F1 grand prix. Most say it's impossible. I have people say that wouldn't back me because they have tried before and failed. One even said "we've given up, we can't even get the same pass that aussie guys get". Interesting. With one email message sent I have been told I will be granted an aussie pass (No F1 photos, no track access). Not what I want but it's a hell of a 'start' to get myself in the 'impossible' door. Getting that only took one email message. Not what I'd call impossible.

If I can't get there within a few years (from NZ - and it is tough) I am shipping out to the UK to chase the dream.

Now many of you will be reading this thinking "he's dreaming". And you know what? You'd be right. The difference between me and others is that I am too stupid to realise anything's impossible.

I am quitting my job in April to start the ball rolling on the motorsport photography stuff. A big gamble (and a huge paycut obviously), but I know that if I sit on my butt and expect it to fall into my lap, it won't ever happen.

Aaron, you and Serra are more the 'real' story example. You are out there doing it - with the same fears and reservations we all have - but you are doing it.

I am in the throws of positioning myself within media circles to be able to work to where I need to go - it's a pathway of sorts.

Right now I'm sitting indoors doing some web work to raise cash (outside of my normal job) to get some gear. My plans have taken a few hits of late - so I am putting in the required efforts to get myslef back online. It's hard to keep the energy levels up - but I'm trying as hard as I can. I know that if I don't help myself, it won't get any better.

Like I've said before, photography is the ultimate free market, opportunities abound. With a bit of hard work, it can be done. I'm sure of it.

Cliff

Go for it Cliff! As long as our dreams are backed by hard work then nothing is impossible. Just remember us little folk when you get your name set up in blazing lights

momentz wrote in post #4506537
There is no money in motorsport (in NZ). Far less than in glamour. If you think dealing with young models is bad, try the hardhead morons who run motorsport events... Motorsport in NZ can only be a hobby, not an earner.

I think there is money to be had. What sucks is the current business model that most of the photographers have. Selling individual shots at 5 bucks a pop doesn't stack up when you have a lot of leg work to get the shots printed, delivered billed etc.

I'm working on a few ideas to approach the fringes of the sport - the people who support it. Shrimper, Moppie and I discussed the whole philosophy of the current market at the first tier 1 meeting, we all agree that it doesn't work as is. But difficult times will only thin the herd too, so if you have patience and can afford to get your butts to the meetings, it may come back round.

Cliff
P.S. Of course the other option is to go somewhere where the prices paid are worth it. Hence I maybe shipping out in a few years. I have managed to work my way into a position where I can work from anywhere on the globe with a net connection - all these things are not coincidental.

klippe wrote in post #4506805
Now many of you will be reading this thinking "he's dreaming". And you know what? You'd be right. The difference between me and others is that I am too stupid to realise anything's impossible.

I don't think that at all.

if you keep talking about it and then never doing anything about it then your dreaming.

The only thing I can say is if you think you can make money then go out and do it. if it means you have to go to the UK for motorsports then hey at least in NZ you can build up a portfolio.

good luck either way. I hope it works for ya.

theflyingkiwi wrote in post #4506472
Hey Kirst, Good to see ya

- Hi Mark!

momentz wrote in post #4506519
Nah, the couple hundred more on the canon guarantees (almost) a good copy of the lens. Mark's 10-20 we're borrowing is a good sigma, but there's too much variation in new sigma lenses and we can't be arsed mucking around with it. Not to mention the Canon is faster, and the 22mm makes it a 35mm equivalent, which is good for shots which you don't want to look distorted.

At least, Aaron thinks so.

I guess, for what you are planning on using it for, I can understand the need for a faster lens.
There is a program, John knows of, that rectifies distortion.
For me, beggars can't be choosers, I'm still just fluffing about with the camera, it's still just an expensive hobby.. concentration on getting paid work is at a minimum.
Not till, if ever, I am confident enough.

momentz wrote in post #4506537
There is no money in motorsport (in NZ). Far less than in glamour. If you think dealing with young models is bad, try the hardhead morons who run motorsport events... Motorsport in NZ can only be a hobby, not an earner.

True

dgcorner wrote in post #4506552
Thanks Kirst! Good stuff there too. Next gig you should get paid a bonus or something...

Thank you, John
My earliest attack at any real paid work is going to be a couple websites that I've been approached for.

dgcorner wrote in post #4506604
I am thinking of selling my Sigma 24-70 f2.8 EX DG to finance a P&S for Tina... or to buy a calibration thingy... From looking at TM it looks like I might get $500...

I am finding that it is either the 17-40 or 70-200IS is on my camera most of the time and no use having the lens taking up space in the storage box....

PM if interested. Otherwise it goes on TM.

EDIT: Looks like I'll be lucky to get $450

If I manage to survive the Christmas season, and it's still there, I may be interested

klippe wrote in post #4506805
The difference between me and others is that I am too stupid to realise anything's impossible.

That statement is an oxymoron. You have realised it, thus making you not stupid. It's just putting your ideas into place

I'm sure you'll go far, Cliff

klippe wrote in post #4506805
I think more the reality is that a lot of people expect things to come to them, rather than having to work hard for it. So you are absolutely right about cake and eating.

I am trying to get accreditation for the Australian F1 grand prix. Most say it's impossible. I have people say that wouldn't back me because they have tried before and failed. One even said "we've given up, we can't even get the same pass that aussie guys get". Interesting. With one email message sent I have been told I will be granted an aussie pass (No F1 photos, no track access). Not what I want but it's a hell of a 'start' to get myself in the 'impossible' door. Getting that only took one email message. Not what I'd call impossible.

If I can't get there within a few years (from NZ - and it is tough) I am shipping out to the UK to chase the dream.

Now many of you will be reading this thinking "he's dreaming". And you know what? You'd be right. The difference between me and others is that I am too stupid to realise anything's impossible.

I am quitting my job in April to start the ball rolling on the motorsport photography stuff. A big gamble (and a huge paycut obviously), but I know that if I sit on my butt and expect it to fall into my lap, it won't ever happen.

Aaron, you and Serra are more the 'real' story example. You are out there doing it - with the same fears and reservations we all have - but you are doing it.

I am in the throws of positioning myself within media circles to be able to work to where I need to go - it's a pathway of sorts.

Right now I'm sitting indoors doing some web work to raise cash (outside of my normal job) to get some gear. My plans have taken a few hits of late - so I am putting in the required efforts to get myslef back online. It's hard to keep the energy levels up - but I'm trying as hard as I can. I know that if I don't help myself, it won't get any better.

Like I've said before, photography is the ultimate free market, opportunities abound. With a bit of hard work, it can be done. I'm sure of it.

Cliff

and with that i wish the the best of luck. with a determind attuited i am sure you can make something of your skills.

speaking of web work.. cliff what do you charge for a set up..

Nzshrimper wrote in post #4506899
speaking of web work.. cliff what do you charge for a set up..

Send me a PM with your requirements. It's kind of a 'how long is a piece of string' question.

Good on ya cliff!

I reckon Pikes peak would be an awesome event to shoot... have you tried to get a pass to that?

lol, kirst and her oxymorons

klippe wrote in post #4506916
Send me a PM with your requirements. It's kind of a 'how long is a piece of string' question.

yeah if i had a buck for every time ive been asked that...
wait - i do, those were my customers LOL

klippe wrote in post #4506839
I think there is money to be had. What sucks is the current business model that most of the photographers have. Selling individual shots at 5 bucks a pop doesn't stack up when you have a lot of leg work to get the shots printed, delivered billed etc.

I'm working on a few ideas to approach the fringes of the sport - the people who support it. Shrimper, Moppie and I discussed the whole philosophy of the current market at the first tier 1 meeting, we all agree that it doesn't work as is. But difficult times will only thin the herd too, so if you have patience and can afford to get your butts to the meetings, it may come back round.

Cliff
P.S. Of course the other option is to go somewhere where the prices paid are worth it. Hence I maybe shipping out in a few years. I have managed to work my way into a position where I can work from anywhere on the globe with a net connection - all these things are not coincidental.

-- very true --

i can think of another way of thinning the herd but its not legal..

i have a five to 10 year plan with motorsport, so at the moment i don't mind subsiding it with other work. build up the portfolio of images and hone the skills, get better gear. it will all come right with the right attitude and patients.

also some of the older @stards (INVALID EMAIL) will have died too.