"Do"s and "don't"s of gear comparison threads

It strikes me how every time there's a camera comparison thread that a few old and tired sayings are always stated to dismiss the relevance of such a thread, ironically enough posted in a gear-oriented thread in the 'Equipment Talk' section. So, slightly tongue-in-cheek, here's a list of "do"s and "don't"s of gear comparison threads:

• Don't say, "The photographer's skills are more important than the camera," or any variation thereof ("A good photographer can take a good photo with a disposable," "The camera doesn't make the photograph," etc.). That's a given; we all know that by now, don't we? But how good/bad the photographer is has no bearing on the quality of the equipment.
  

• Don't say, "A better camera won't make you a better photographer." That's a variation on the theme above, but I'm singling it out because not only is it irrelevant to a gear comparison discussion, but it's also flat out untrue. A better camera can make you a better photographer, but it depends on your shooting conditions/needs. Features such as faster AF, higher frame rate, cleaner high ISO, etc. allow photographers who need those features to get shots they otherwise wouldn't, or get better shots than they otherwise would be able to. Yes, a better camera can make you a better photographer--not in the artistic sense, but in the ability to get the shot you envisioned without being hampered by the equipment.
  

• Don't say, "It won't make me switch brands." Well, maybe not so much "don't" as just be careful how you say so. Holding that up as the ultimate measurement of which piece of gear is better is off the mark. True, if a camera is so much better than a comparable offering with your current brand that it makes you switch, then it's a better camera for you, but if it's not good enough to make you switch it could be for a variety of other reasons including cost and hassle of switching. It could very well still be a better camera--just not better enough to overcome everything that's involved with switching. Comparing gear, especially gear we'll probably never own, can be a lot of fun. Let's not take the fun out of it by being so practical about it
  

• Do give the "other" camera a chance if you own only one of the cameras being compared. Saying how you know nothing about camera A but are very satisfied with camera B adds nothing to the discussion.
  

• Don't say, "Stop sweating the details and go out and shoot already." Some of us happen to enjoy talking about gear as well as actually shooting with it. Is that so wrong? And even if somebody is a "gearhead" instead of a photographer who happens to enjoy talking gear, that's ok too. I'll come clean here: I bought my first camera (a compact digital) because I was interested in the technology. Little did I know that there was this amazing world of artistic expression behind it. It takes all sorts I say, and there's room for all of us, regardless of where we are on the gear-vs-art spectrum.
  

• Do participate light-heartedly. Some of the things said in these threads amaze me. Do y'all talk like this to people in real life? Serious is fine, but don't blow a gasket over a difference of opinion.
  

• And definitely do take this list in the spirit in which it was intended. I'm not claiming any authority to tell you what to do or don't do. I've just observed certain trends that persist regardless of what gear is being compared and on what forum, so I thought I'd jibber jabber about it.

Yohan Pamudji wrote in post #4504140
Don't say, "Stop sweating the details and go out and shoot already."

I say this often. My main spin is that sitting in side taking horribly white balanced shots of boxes doesn't get you far.

I also say it to many who are misinformed or haven't learned a few things yet and to encourage them to think more about the photography.

I wouldn't say this to Petkal measurebating his latest L prime on Ronald's 189th brick, I know they are doing real world comparisons.

Sometimes it's okay to see what people are doing with what gear. But to agonize over it, that's when it gets very strange, and expensive.

I would like to see cartoons of the lenses wrestling but Im always dissapointed.

cosworth wrote in post #4504217
I also say it to many who are misinformed or haven't learned a few things yet and to encourage them to think more about the photography.

Jason,
Have I told you your my new hero on POTN?

I'm not sure if that's a good thing...

With the advent of much cheaper bodies, those that are getting into photography for the first time ever or come from a 3 year old point and shoot, invariably come here and immediately assume that since they bought a DSLR, their pictures are just going to be outstanding, or because they bought their first L lens, their normally blurry and poorly composed pictures will automagically turn into gallery masterpieces.

These rules or cliches must be put out there to teach, guide, and sometimes admonish those that don't know these things. I know two years ago, these very replies drove me to learn more and I am glad for that. I also am learning every day, and will try to do better, and in alot of cases, will never be able to still even come close to the skills found here.

Sometimes people need a shot of reality, I know I do almost daily, and my wife makes that very clear!

NZDoug wrote in post #4504315
I would like to see cartoons of the lenses wrestling but Im always dissapointed.

This is sort of close. Kind of a "Celebrity Deathmatch" of sorts.

http://photobusinessfo​rum.blogspot.com …s-canon-introduction.html

• DO break your long post up into paragraphs. Even if you use bullets.

cosworth wrote in post #4504375
I'm not sure if that's a good thing...

Read as, whenever I see you making comments of that nature, I have usually already have one finger on the "find a better thread" button....

I took a long time off the board here, and now that I am back I am seriously considering staying only in the C&C sections...

number six wrote in post #4504782

• DO break your long post up into paragraphs. Even if you use bullets.

-js

Put in some whitespace, just for you

I'll be damned if I'll let some yahoo from Mississippi tell me what to do.

Wait, was that too serious?

Taken in the spirit offered, but with some personal observations:

* Don't say, "The photographer's skills are more important than the camera," or any variation thereof ("A good photographer can take a good photo with a disposable," "The camera doesn't make the photograph," etc.). That's a given; we all know that by now, don't we? But how good/bad the photographer is has no bearing on the quality of the equipment. How good or bad the photographer is may have no bearing on the equipment, but how knowledgeable the photographer is and how well versed he or see is with their equipment and with photography as a whole can very well make the difference about understanding why photos are soft at low shutter speeds or why white balance is important when comparing images. A poor photographer will little understanding of photographic principle would better spend their time and money on learning what they don't know rather than agonizing over a choice of cameras.

* Don't say, "A better camera won't make you a better photographer." That's a variation on the theme above, but I'm singling it out because not only is it irrelevant to a gear comparison discussion, but it's also flat out untrue. A better camera can make you a better photographer, but it depends on your shooting conditions/needs. Features such as faster AF, higher frame rate, cleaner high ISO, etc. allow photographers who need those features to get shots they otherwise wouldn't, or get better shots than they otherwise would be able to. Yes, a better camera can make you a better photographer--not in the artistic sense, but in the ability to get the shot you envisioned without being hampered by the equipment. This is only true once a photographer has reached the limits of their current equipment. Most of us are no where close to that point in photography. Give a novice a 1D series camera and they may become so frustrated with all the options that they never learn anything, or maybe not, but the vast majority of people are going to be better off learning more about the principles of the craft before opting for a new camera. That way they can make an informed and educated assessment of whether a different body will, in fact, help them in their quest for better images.

* Don't say, "It won't make me switch brands." Well, maybe not so much "don't" as just be careful how you say so. Holding that up as the ultimate measurement of which piece of gear is better is off the mark. True, if a camera is so much better than a comparable offering with your current brand that it makes you switch, then it's a better camera for you, but if it's not good enough to make you switch it could be for a variety of other reasons including cost and hassle of switching. It could very well still be a better camera--just not better enough to overcome everything that's involved with switching. Comparing gear, especially gear we'll probably never own, can be a lot of fun. Let's not take the fun out of it by being so practical about it For many people, their money is in an entire system, not in a camera itself. If people switch systems willy nilly just because the competition comes out with their next generation of camera bodies, they'll never gain the system expertise necessary to move beyond the equipment limitations. It is eminently practical to stick with a system and to learn it well. To advise otherwise does a disservice to those eager to learn photography.

* Do give the "other" camera a chance if you own only one of the cameras being compared. Saying how you know nothing about camera A but are very satisfied with camera B adds nothing to the discussion. No issues with your statement.

* Don't say, "Stop sweating the details and go out and shoot already." Some of us happen to enjoy talking about gear as well as actually shooting with it. Is that so wrong? And even if somebody is a "gearhead" instead of a photographer who happens to enjoy talking gear, that's ok too. I'll come clean here: I bought my first camera (a compact digital) because I was interested in the technology. Little did I know that there was this amazing world of artistic expression behind it. It takes all sorts I say, and there's room for all of us, regardless of where we are on the gear-vs-art spectrum. Sure, enjoy your gear, but photography is not about the gear, it's about the images. If you're not shooting in the real world, what's the point? Buy your gear, stick it in a collector's case, and pull it out to pixel peep and measurebate once a month. But don't call it photography.

* Do participate light-heartedly. Some of the things said in these threads amaze me. Do y'all talk like this to people in real life? Serious is fine, but don't blow a gasket over a difference of opinion. I definitely agree with your perspective here. It's only a forum and lots of people aren't going to agree with you. That happens in real life too. Don't get mad, just try to learn from others.

I understand your points and largely agree. I believe there needs to be room to point out when differences in gear won't matter, or won't matter much. Sometimes it doesn't matter to an individual (he's so clueless that the minutiae of some piece of pro gear really is the least of his worries). Sometimes it really doesn't matter much to anyone - say a technical superiority that cannot be seen in 99.9% of images. I like to be able to get a sense of when differences matter (and are worth paying for) and sometimes the above comments you complain about are in effect people saying "no, it won't matter" - and that can be valuable advice.

If we never bring things back to objective "real world" types of differences we risk becoming like the audiophile forums (sorry audiophiles) where there are debates of religious intensity over arcane, often scientifically ludicrous minutiae of gear (connector cables costing thousands of dollars that send digital signals, for example) that really makes no difference to objective listeners. I'd hate to move in that direction!

CelticRavenVA wrote in post #4504805
Read as, whenever I see you making comments of that nature, I have usually already have one finger on the "find a better thread" button....

I took a long time off the board here, and now that I am back I am seriously considering staying only in the C&C sections...

Point taken. But understand that the post count that you see on the left wasn't from saying "cool shot" in the C&C sections. It wasn't from participating in chat threads. It's from spending a lot of time here helping as much as I've been helped.

Sometimes I decide that the time has come to say let's be objectice and it falls on deaf ears.

As I said, point taken. Maybe with time you'll understand my posts and their angle a bit clearer. Maybe I'll be a bit more objective myself.