Approve the Cookies
This website uses cookies to improve your user experience. By using this site, you agree to our use of cookies and our Privacy Policy.
OK
Index  •   • New posts  •   • RTAT  •   • 'Best of'  •   • Gallery  •   • Gear  •   • Reviews
Guest
New posts  •   • RTAT  •   • 'Best of'  •   • Gallery  •   • Gear  •   • Reviews
Register to forums    Log in

 
FORUMS Post Processing, Marketing & Presenting Photos The Business of Photography 
Thread started 27 Dec 2007 (Thursday) 08:59
Search threadPrev/next
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as a registered member)

why not just give all photos away but charge for time...

 
Zvon
Member
Avatar
102 posts
Joined Oct 2007
Location: Toronto, Ontario
     
Dec 27, 2007 08:59 |  #1

Here is a question I couldn't quite answer as a friend approached me with the idea. He mentioned to me that he'd like to do photography but with a spin on the standard business model.

He figures he'd charge for his time(more so then normal) then give a CD full res and let the customer worry about the prints. Now we didn't go into too much detail over how he would actually make money, but I can see a few problems right off the bat. Firstly, I'm not sure if he'd edit the photos then give to the customer or would he just give the as shot versions of his photos. I can see this as a major issue with quality of the photos and professionalism. Secondly, from my standpoint It seems most revenue comes from print orders, perhaps I'm mistaken?

Basically, I figure if this model worked wouldn't a whole bunch of photogs be doing this rather then having a very hard time finding a photographer willing to give away his negatives?


_______________
Canon 40D w/ BGrip
24-70mm f/2.8L USM
Online Gallery .:: http://photos.zvon.ca (external link) ::.

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as a registered member)
PhotosGuy
Moderator
Avatar
75,866 posts
Gallery: 8 photos
Likes: 2516
Joined Feb 2004
Location: Middle of Michigan
     
Dec 27, 2007 09:05 |  #2

Keep in mind that, if you sell a CD of images for them to make crappy prints at the corner drugstore, not only will you lose the sales, but those will be your crappy prints that will be shown to their friends & possible future clients?


FrankC - 20D, RAW, Manual everything...
Classic Carz, Racing, Air Show, Flowers.
Find the light... A few Car Lighting Tips, and MOVE YOUR FEET!
Have you thought about making your own book? // Need an exposure crutch?
New Image Size Limits: Image must not exceed 1600 pixels on any side.

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
cdifoto
Don't get pissy with me
Avatar
34,090 posts
Likes: 40
Joined Dec 2005
     
Dec 27, 2007 09:08 |  #3

I think that would work only after you're fully established due to the reason Frank stated. Once you've been around awhile people will realize it's the prints that are bad, not your work. Before that time comes, however, it'll just look like you're putting out crap. Unless you have the luxury of owning a studio from the get-go where you can display quality framed prints in the waiting/meeting area and/or a storefront window.


Did you lose Digital Photo Professional (DPP)? Get it here (external link). Cursing at your worse-than-a-map reflector? Check out this vid! (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
airfrogusmc
I'm a chimper. There I said it...
36,277 posts
Gallery: 147 photos
Best ofs: 6
Likes: 5565
Joined May 2007
Location: Oak Park, Illinois
     
Dec 27, 2007 09:09 |  #4

Well if your names going on it or associated with it, I don't know about the rest on here but I don't like giving up control of what the final print is going to look like. Take your stuff to Wal-Mart and the stuff is probably going to look like it came from there. Printing of the final images is something I make sure is right before the client sees it. Then theres the $$$ issue. You would have to charge allot more to make up for the loss of not selling the prints but for me its really more contolling the final product.




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Mike ­ R
Goldmember
4,319 posts
Likes: 3
Joined May 2006
Location: 06478, CT
     
Dec 27, 2007 09:17 |  #5

I periodicaly order prints form my lab just for quality checks. I'm sure that most,if not all of us, put a lot of time into researching which labs to use and the final print that our customer holds is a reflection on our work as a photograpehr.


Mike R
www.mikerubinphoto.com (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
sspellman
Goldmember
Avatar
1,731 posts
Likes: 28
Joined Dec 2006
Location: Detroit, Michigan
     
Dec 27, 2007 19:42 |  #6

Zvon-

Most commercial photography is priced by time and usage, with the images delivered in electronic format only. Prints and print sales are primarily delivered with personal photography services like portraits and weddings.

The posters are right that even good photographs can turn out bad with a bad printing. But as a commercial and media photographer, I rarely make prints for clients and accept that sometimes they might look worse or sometimes better than my original work.

-Scott


ScottSpellmanMedia.com [photography]

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
airfrogusmc
I'm a chimper. There I said it...
36,277 posts
Gallery: 147 photos
Best ofs: 6
Likes: 5565
Joined May 2007
Location: Oak Park, Illinois
     
Dec 27, 2007 19:49 as a reply to  @ sspellman's post |  #7

I also send most of my images electronically but I have graphic designers and art directors that know color handling my images and not Wal-Mart and the 16 year old that can barely turn on the machine let alone adjust color and he could really care less if its to magenta.




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
sandpiper
Cream of the Crop
Avatar
7,171 posts
Gallery: 1 photo
Likes: 50
Joined Aug 2006
Location: Merseyside, England
     
Dec 27, 2007 20:18 as a reply to  @ sspellman's post |  #8

there is a growing trend towards "shoot and scoot" wedding photography in the UK, at the cheaper end of the market. In general the clients are looking for a cheap package and not being charged the earth for reprints, they are more interested in getting half decent images of the day at a low cost, rather than top notch prints at a much higher price.

This is often chosen for registry office weddings, rather than church weddings with all the trimmings.

I was chatting to a photographer who does these, and discussing the point about losing print / reprint sales and he said that it can still be very profitable.

He does also do big wedding packages at a premium price, covering the wedding, reception etc., then doing proper PP, making up the album, doing quality prints etc. With such a package he gives up most of a day to do the shooting, several hours for processing, a couple more to assemble the album, time is also taken up sorting out proofs, taking orders etc. He charges accordingly, like most wedding photographers.

However, he reckons he actually makes as much, or more, doing the cheap "shoot and scoot" weddings, where he turns up at the service, takes the shots and later delivers a CD with all the images on, with basic batch processing, that takes less than hour to produce. As he is an experienced wedding photographer, and does turn out very nice images, the shots out of the camera are still very good and professional. If the customers then send them to a half decent printer, they will have prints almost as good as with his premium package (just lacking the extra retouching in Photoshop).

How does this make as much money as a "bells and whistles" shoot?

Simple. Instead of ONE shoot, he can do four or five weddings in a day. Process the whole lot that evening, mail them the next day and forget about it. The hours saved processing, dealing with proofs and orders, assembling the album etc., allow him time to process other work, allowing him to fit in more portrait shoots etc., during the week. As he turns out stylish images he can charge around £400 for this budget service, so making £1,600 and up on a decent day.

So, it can work from an established photographers point of view. It is also popular with newbie photographers looking to make a few pounds at weekends. Unlike the chap I was chatting to, they will often have limited experience, turn up with one body and a couple of lenses and turn out mediocre results. However, they may only be charging £100-150 and couples with little money may appreciate the saving even at the cost of low quality pics. These photographers "shoot and scoot" because (often) they have no real Photoshop skills and just want to dump the shots straight from camera to CD.




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
John ­ Mireles
Senior Member
259 posts
Joined May 2007
Location: San Diego
     
Dec 27, 2007 21:53 |  #9

Shoot and scoot, shoot and burn, call it what you will, it's a tried and true business model. Nothing new. Here's the key though: The reason you go into the photography business is not to shoot photos - that you can do on your own - it's to make money.

The problem with shoot and burn is that you can't make as much as if you were to offer a full range of services. If all you want to do is make a few hundred extra bucks on a weekend, then shoot and burn makes perfect sense.

If, on the other hand, you want to earn a living from photography, that ain't gonna work. You need thousands from each wedding. If a client would pay that, then I'd even do shoot and burn, the problem is that no shoot and burn client will.

When it comes to portraits, it's the same story. You can maybe charge a couple of hundred bucks for shoot and burn, where a properly run full-service studio can make thousands from the same shoot through prints and albums.

If you are going to do shoot and burn, you have to shoot for high volume. That means keeping your costs down and low customer service. It also means lots of low-budget shoots, with a cheap clientele in lousy venues. Unless you have a high tolerance against boredom and no artistic sensibility, it's a good recipe for burnout.

John


www.photographerstoolk​it.com (external link)
Sign up for my free Photographer's Business Coach newsletter

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Zvon
THREAD ­ STARTER
Member
Avatar
102 posts
Joined Oct 2007
Location: Toronto, Ontario
     
Dec 28, 2007 08:52 |  #10

Thanks guys for the comments! I have directed my friend to the forum to read all your views on the topic!

It's funny how there are those two schools of thought, but as John Mireles said, I agree that there would be major burn out from boring and uninteresting jobs from the shoot and burn side of things. The creativity is all the fun in taking pictures, then having people buy that creativity and saying "wow" is what I think we all want to achieve.


_______________
Canon 40D w/ BGrip
24-70mm f/2.8L USM
Online Gallery .:: http://photos.zvon.ca (external link) ::.

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as a registered member)

1,348 views & 0 likes for this thread
why not just give all photos away but charge for time...
FORUMS Post Processing, Marketing & Presenting Photos The Business of Photography 
AAA
x 1600
y 1600

Jump to forum...   •  Rules   •  Index   •  New posts   •  RTAT   •  'Best of'   •  Gallery   •  Gear   •  Reviews   •  Member list   •  Polls   •  Image rules   •  Search   •  Password reset

Not a member yet?
Register to forums
Registered members may log in to forums and access all the features: full search, image upload, follow forums, own gear list and ratings, likes, more forums, private messaging, thread follow, notifications, own gallery, all settings, view hosted photos, own reviews, see more and do more... and all is free. Don't be a stranger - register now and start posting!


COOKIES DISCLAIMER: This website uses cookies to improve your user experience. By using this site, you agree to our use of cookies and to our privacy policy.
Privacy policy and cookie usage info.


POWERED BY AMASS forum software 2.1forum software
version 2.1 /
code and design
by Pekka Saarinen ©
for photography-on-the.net

Latest registered member is dayuan99
2002 guests, 328 members online
Simultaneous users record so far is 15144, that happened on Nov 22, 2018

Photography-on-the.net Digital Photography Forums is the website for photographers and all who love great photos, camera and post processing techniques, gear talk, discussion and sharing. Professionals, hobbyists, newbies and those who don't even own a camera -- all are welcome regardless of skill, favourite brand, gear, gender or age. Registering and usage is free.